Balanced ground Vs. "True" balanced signal path

[El_Doug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyramid6 /img/forum/go_quote.gif To me the WooAudio WA6 sounded better than the LD VII+. I would pick a better SE amp over a balanced amp.

i dont think that these amps make a good comparison point between balanced and SE operation... one is a transformer-coupled tube amp, the other is an otl solid state amp

i guarantee this difference is responsible for 99% of why these amps sound different - not their balanced operation, or lack thereof

 

[Ypoknons]

Indeed, how would we test for such a difference, since active ground and balanced require a different board layout and thus different design? The closest I can imagine would be a test between a 3ch beta22 and a 4ch beta22.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ypoknons /img/forum/go_quote.gif Indeed, how would we test for such a difference, since active ground and balanced require a different board layout and thus different design? The closest I can imagine would be a test between a 3ch beta22 and a 4ch beta22.

2ch B22 VS 4ch B22 This will require volume matching.

RSA B52 or apache with balanced ins (must use balanced ins) and either XLR or TRS out. Note! Must match volumes.

A simple switch to select between grounding either a center tap and one end of a transformer OR float and ground.

 

[pabbi1]

^^ Yes to volume match.

 

[Leny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are no facts on HF. Only opinions,

Obviously there are not just opinions.


Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have you ever actually heard a 300b amp with headphones?

For goodness sake, why try and blurt in the face of 60+ years of existence of the 300B which was specifically designed for audio frequency amplification? What do you hope to achieve? To make yourself sound knowledgeable by ranging your subjective opinion against actual objective facts?

Whether a 300B is driving an 8 Ohm speaker or a 30 Ohm headphone, the response can still be mighty fine. It was designed for the job of audio amplification!

My own DIY design was very successful, however when I sold my K1000 I no longer needed the same output swing hence the amp was sold. Friends still use 300B tubes in their amps very successfully. (However I have no way to prove this to you, so there is no point to pursue the point).


Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif …just another 'From what I have READ post', standing behind the thin veneer of a datasheet.

With respect, you make yourself sound very arrogant.

Pabbi1, I have tried to state facts about the 300B in the face of your subjective opinion. If you disagree that is fine by me and I am not interested in an argument based on your sample-of-one opinion. Instead I will simply stick with the facts, which speak for themselves. (For anyone else reading and considering a DIY tube based design, I urge you to investigate the 300B objectively if you need a large voltage swing with reasonable current delivery).


Back to the opening post, my recommendation is this: if you are in any way DIY inclined, consider a 2 channel B22 with a non-jack output connector and separate grounds from the power supply right up to your ear transducers, before shelling out on a ‘balanced’ amplifier.

 

[Feanor]

Guys, please keep down the OT flaming. Thank you both for your recommendations, but I respectfully put forward the idea that the pros and cons of 300B tube deserve their own thread...

 

[Leny]

My apologies Feanor, I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[Feanor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ypoknons /img/forum/go_quote.gif Indeed, how would we test for such a difference, since active ground and balanced require a different board layout and thus different design? The closest I can imagine would be a test between a 3ch beta22 and a 4ch beta22.

Hah looking at the pricing on the betas I'm fairly sure I won't be the one who does that, unless I win the lottery that is.

And Leny, no worries.

 

[pabbi1]

My real world experience with this idea was far simpler - see my MilletMax in my sig. it was an OPUS DAC (balanced source) feeding 2 Millettmax boards, which were wired with Neutrik combo jacks, as 'differential' (aka balanced), as well as 2 single ended amp boards.

Same box, same source, same parts, same wire, same pots. The same, except the topology. I did extensive listening through that amp, and took it to meets, for the better part of a year. Even had the balanced and SE cable made by the same manufacturer.

The facts? Better microdetail, better bass extension, faster (slew rate) and, of course, more gain, which IS required as a MillettMax will clip SE at higher volumes.

That is a (relatively) cheap trial that may keep you happy for many years, if you like tubes. Conversely, you can also do that with an m³, which is an easier build than the b22, or any number of different amps or balanced DACs.

That is what I did, not just read or thought about.

 

[Ypoknons]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hah looking at the pricing on the betas I'm fairly sure I won't be the one who does that, unless I win the lottery that is.

Me neither

. Actually, there was a M^3 on Rockhopper capable of balanced and dual SE operation (did I get the technical terms right?), maybe next time that comes up it'd be a bit more practical (for any lovable head-fi member) to test?

I won't have the financial resources for years.

 

[Eagle Eye]

I would recommend the balanced Audio GD ROC or Phoenix. Add to it one of his DAC's and get to rockin. LOL Obviously that is what I did and I can say the ROC drives my W5000 and the HD 600's and HD 650's I had to the limit. The sound is clean, clear totally black and full. I am not too good at explaining sound but I know what I like. I am 100%satisfied with the ROC and all the connections it has. Can go either balanced or SE. Of course this is just my opinion but I can say I am finally done looking for the sound I want. Nobody of course can tell you what your satisfaction will be but you will know, LOL.