ASIO SQ difference between WinAmp and Foobar plugins

[smartins]

I've been meaning to post this a while now but I kept delaying it just to make sure these differences where really noticeable, which I'm now convinced they are indeed.

I've started using Foobar2000 a while back after reading about all the recommendations this player had. For output I chose ASIO with the foo_out_asio.dll plugin available for download from their foobar's website (184,320 bytes) which seemed to offer the best quality.

Recently I've seen a recommendation for MediaMonkey so I gave it a try. I actually liked it a lot and also noticed that it sounded different (better) when using the ASIO plugin. MediaMonkey's uses WinAmp plugins so the ASIO plugin I'm using is the out_asio(dll).dll (SSE2 version) from otachan.com.

My findings when comparing the SQ of the ASIO output of foobar and MediaMonkey (or WinAmp as the plugin is the same) are the following:

MediaMonkey/WinAmp: More fun to listen to, the bass is more present and the mids and highs are "there" but not as harsh as foobar.

Foobar: In comparison to MediaMonkey/WinAmp it sounds more cold, with less bass and with harsher highs.

I've done several comparisons over the last few weeks and this is the conclusion I get every time I switch back to foobar.

Anyone else noticed this? I don't have any equalizer on and just to make sure I've installed the basic WinAmp with only the ASIO plugin and the SQ is the same as the MediaMonkey one.

 

[regal]

Have you taken the bitperfect DTS or HDCD test?

 

[smartins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal Have you taken the bitperfect DTS or HDCD test?

Do you mean downloading the surround test file (I used SURROUNDTEST_011212.dts) and see if it can be played by my DAC? If so yes. I had to use a DVD player to get it to play correctly but my X-Fi outputs perfectly to my DA10.

If you were referring to something else let me know.

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartins Do you mean downloading the surround test file (I used SURROUNDTEST_011212.dts) and see if it can be played by my DAC? If so yes. I had to use a DVD player to get it to play correctly but my X-Fi outputs perfectly to my DA10. If you were referring to something else let me know.

No to test your computer's digital output you have to play the a DTS wav or flac file on your computer. You then hook the digital out from your computer to a DTS decoder (typically a home theater reciever.) If it plays music your ASIO is not being messed with, I suspect it won't as you are hearing differences.

 

[Murugesh]

Yes Smartin. I did the same testing but with Winamp itself. My findings is same as yours. Foobar is sounding a bit brighter than Winamp when I use ASIO (by the way I'm using demo version of USB-ASIO). In Foobar, I hear sounds with right on the face clarity but it feels like piercing after 30 mins or 1 hour. On the other hand, Winamp sounds softer with added bass. SQ in Winamp is better than Foobar for long time listening.

Another big difference I see here is that I can control Foobar's volume control whereas Winamp's volume control is disabled.

 

[jiiteepee]

Agreed ... Foobar sounds 'cold' w/ foo_out_asio.

BTW, have you already compared these three mentioned players against NI TRAKTOR BeatPort Player? IMO, it sounds even better.

jiitee

 

[GotNoRice]

If they sound different then one of them is broken because if everything was doing what it was supposed to they would both sound exactly the same.

So you guys are saying that ASIO in foobar is basically broken?

What about ASIO vs. KS in foobar, do they both exhibit the same problem or not? If so then the problem has to be higher up the chain, if not then maybe KS could be used as a temp solution.

 

[Magsy]

What are you listening to? Lossless?

Foobar and Winamp have different MP3 decoders, so they will sound different if you are testing with MP3............

 

[MikoLayer]

smartins, was it winamp5.0? I would like to give it a shot myself.

I have tried the NI player a while ago and it did have a very distinctive sound to it. Though I kinda liked it at first, ended up going back to foobar eventually. The primary reason was soncial differences, but the beatport folks really could develop some alternative interface, or skinning feature unless they already have one. Their default interface might be good for mixing (I assume), but leave a lot to be desired for someone whos going from fb2k.

 

[smartins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal No to test your computer's digital output you have to play the a DTS wav or flac file on your computer. You then hook the digital out from your computer to a DTS decoder (typically a home theater reciever.) If it plays music your ASIO is not being messed with, I suspect it won't as you are hearing differences.

I just tested a DTS CD playing with VCL Media Player and it outputs perfectly to a DTS decoder via optical, when selecting the DTS Bitsteam Out on the X-Fi.

For audio playback I use the Audio Creation Mode with bit-matched playback which outputs a bit-perfect signal.

 

[smartins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magsy What are you listening to? Lossless? Foobar and Winamp have different MP3 decoders, so they will sound different if you are testing with MP3............

Lossless (mostly FLAC's) and MP3.

 

[smartins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer smartins, was it winamp5.0? I would like to give it a shot myself. I have tried the NI player a while ago and it did have a very distinctive sound to it. Though I kinda liked it at first, ended up going back to foobar eventually. The primary reason was soncial differences, but the beatport folks really could develop some alternative interface, or skinning feature unless they already have one. Their default interface might be good for mixing (I assume), but leave a lot to be desired for someone whos going from fb2k.

I simply downloaded the most basic WinAmp from their web site a few days ago, it's version 5.31. For the plugin I used the out_asio(dll).dll (SSE2 version - use this if your CPU supports SSE2) from http://otachan.com/out_asio(dll).html.

 

[Murugesh]

Mine is Winamp 5 basic version. Foobar is 0.9

I'm using out-asio(dll) SSE with USB-ASIO demo version as device on both players.

I'm playing only .wav files so no mp3 encoding comes into picture.

KS and ASIO on foobar sounds same to my ears. Did lot of hearing but couldn't identify any difference. I don't have KS on Winamp so not able to confirm if KS=ASIO in Winamp too.

Though Winamp sounds warmer I miss some details that I hear with Foobar.

I wonder why I can't use my winamp's volume control while I can use Foobar's volume ctrl. I don't know which player is working perfect with asio !!

 

[LeChuck]

Quote:

KS and ASIO on foobar sounds same to my ears. Did lot of hearing but couldn't identify any difference. I don't have KS on Winamp so not able to confirm if KS=ASIO in Winamp too.

This statement leads me to suspect that it's Foobar which is properly outputting bit-perfect audio, and WinAmp isn't. Two bit-perfect standards should, by definition, sound the same; in Foobar it makes sense that ASIO and KS sound the same, but ASIO should sound the same across all players.

Are you sure there are no DSP settings on in WinAmp, or anything else that could possibly be changing the sound?

 

[Murugesh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeChuck Are you sure there are no DSP settings on in WinAmp, or anything else that could possibly be changing the sound?

No DSP settings on both Winamp and Foobar (i.e. no EQ, no cross feed etc).

I like the details that Foobar reveals but it lacks a bit of bass. I'll receive HD650 today. It may emphasize bass better than my DT880. I expect I will like foobar presentation with HD650.