Anyone find Denon AH-C700 lacking in midrange?

[Mython]

Hi, I'm a noob on these forums but I have taken time to search them for an existing answer to my query, finding very little of direct relevance, other than the following post, which I will admit, I did not notice, prior to purchasing my 'phones:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3567297-post644.html

As a matter of fact, I read a great many forum posts here, about these earphones, before I purchased my ah-c700s - they encouraged me to go ahead and splash the cash.

However, I received my new 'phones today, direct from Japan, and I must say that while they have quite an authoritative, firm sound, I am extremely disappointed in the midrange, which is distinctly recessed and muddy - very much the opposite of the reviews and forum posts I have read. Am I really alone in feeling this way?

The midrange is almost as muddy and recessed as my old Sony MD-71s, and they are BBAAADDD.

Using the 'Spoken Word' preset on my iPod does lift the midrange a little, but not sufficiently to make the midrange even close to the glowing reviews for these 'phones. I was hoping that replacing my appallingly-bad Sony MD-71s with the Denons would finally allow me to dispense with using any EQ at all, since I don't like EQ at the best of times and Apple made a total botch-job of implementing EQ on the iPod anyway - did somebody say D-I-S-T-O-R-T-I-O-N-?!?

I'm not a bass-head; I don't listen to happy hardcore of techno. I like Rock, pop, blues, jazz, and particularly acoustic and female vocals - NEUTRALLY portrayed by my listening equipment. No spiky or dulled treble, no absurdly bloated thumping bass, and no muffled midrange.

I am prepared to accept some fidelity limitations due to use of an iPod and (carefully) compressed audio files, but I see no reason why I should suffer VERY recessed midrange for an earphone claiming to outperform others costing half or quarter the price - I have Sony MDR-E829Vs that are lacking in bass but seem to have FAR superior midrange to these Denons.

I've left the Denons to burn-in a bit, with some blues, R & B etc, but I don't hold out much hope...

If I find things improving after extended burn-in, then rest assured, I will alter this post accordingly.

Can anyone share their experiences, specific to this issue, please?


John


P.S., I do not believe this is a hearing issue - I can hear the midrange superbly on my fullsize Scanspeak/Dynaudio loudspeakers, and this at sensible volumes. Also note my earlier comment on the relative midrange performance of the cheap-&-cheerful Sony MDR-E829Vs

 

[athenaesword]

i'd say let them burn in for a week or 2 before making final judgements on the soundquality. personally the midrange sounds fine for me. in fact, my personal minor disgruntlement with them is that they're a little bass-shy, but that might be because i haven't found the perfect tips for them. i've had them for months and i listen to them everyday so mine are burned in.

actually, i find the midrange of the denons to be pretty good.. so really, burn them in first.

 

[RAQemUP]

When I first got my Denon C700, I wasn't too happy with the tips. Though the same size and style, the Sony IEM tips are more comfortable as they are much softer and easier to create a seal because of that. Still I wasn't too happy with the ear canal fit although I love the sound of these IEMs.

Last week I ordered from ebay 1 pair of triple flange tips designed to fit Sony and Skullcandy IEMs, which are the same as the Denons and CK7s. Now I'm extremely happy with them and it only cost me $8 shipped for the new tips.

Just do a search on ebay for "triple flange sony" to find them.

 

[Methos1979]

Hi, I'm the guy who's post you referenced. If there's one thing you can be sure of when it comes to headphones, everyone's tastes are different and vary at least a little, sometimes a lot! The Denon's are very good IEM's. I loved them. I did feel the mids were a little recesses but after having them for a while I would have clarify that statement and say that they weren't so much recessed as they were overrun by the lows and highs. Everyone seemed to say the mids were 'upfront' with these which is why I initially stated that my opinion of the recessed mids might have something to do with my mid-range hearing loss. I'm VERY sensitive to highs. Excessive or overly bright phones aggravate my tinnitus and make listening painful. The Denon's did calm down quite a bit with burnin. I did some pink noise burnin and then general use. Sadly in the end, I sold them off not because of their sound, which I loved, but just because my ears can't handle IEM's of any kind. Anything that blocks the canals completely leads withing minutes to an unpleasant itching sensation which I have come to believe is my ears going into high gear wax production. So now I just use my Bose AE TriPorts and some Sennhieser PX 100's for out and about use.

Keep in mind that in addition to everyone's differening opinions on hearing that also player and material, ie: music, plays a very big role in what and IEM sounds like. That's why it's so hard to judge. Soozieq's thread was great, still is in fact. Lot's of good opinions there and all of them valid. I'd say give them a little more time, maybe try some pink noise burnin and if they still don't float your boat then sell them and move on. Just remember, unless you can try them for yourself before purchasing, you won't really know what you're getting until they in your ears.

Good luck.

 

[Rickio]

I think the seal has a lot to do with getting the right sound. I thought I was getting a good seal, but the sound was flat and terrible, after having them a few weeks.

I had changed to larger size tips and noticed while messing with them that for me, pushing in to far makes it sound worse. So I listen as I put them in and place them what feels like just barely so it won't fall out.

I really need to look for better tips though...

The Mids sound good and but perhaps you hear something different.

 

[athenaesword]

i'm currenting using the UE medium flanges and they do the job adequately, but not superbly. i still miss how the westones fit.
i dont' think i'll move on to tripleflanges because i was feeling discomfort even with the dual flanges from UE, so tripleflanges may be too big a deal for me...

 

[Mython]

Thanks, everyone, for your responses.

Regarding fit, I get a very good seal with the standard (medium) tips. As mentioned, I do own a pair of the terrible Sony MD-71s, so I have already tried the very similar tips from those on the Denons, with no improvement to that area of their sound which I consider to be lacking - the midrange. The better the seal, the stronger the bass, in my experience, and the bass is over-influencing the midrange already, with my Denons. Indeed, I would concede that Methos1979's comment that "they weren't so much recessed as they were overrun by the lows and highs" has some truth in it.

RAQemUP, I'm not clear on what particular influence the flanged tips have had on the sound quality of your C700s. As I just remarked, I get a good seal with the standard medium tips (and with the Sony equivalent, robbed from the MD-71s) in my particular ear shape, so I'm not certain if changing to triple flanges would serve to improve the midrange. Please let me know (honestly!

) what difference the triple flanges made to your personal listening experience. I suspect, more bass.

Pushing the tips further into my ears, the bass reduces somewhat (a GOOD thing, in my opinion), but the soundstage seems to suffer quite dramatically, which is weird, so the net result does not, for me, constitute an overall improvement, which seems to concur with Rickio's view.

Methos1979, thanks for your carefully-considered contribution. It is impossible to deny that unless one can try a pair of 'phones, up close & personal, before purchasing, there will always be a wide range of uncertainty and potential for dissatisfaction. Bummer. But there it is...

[size=x-small]Incidentally, just swerving off topic for a moment, are you aware that, to some extent, excessive earwax production is often correlated with inadequate intake of Essential Fatty Acids ('EFAs') such as Omega 3? (though, of course, irritation of the ear canal might, as you suspect, be a possible cause). Either way, if this is an issue for you, you might just try taking Udo's Oil for a month or two and seeing if this makes any improvement for you. You'll find it in your local health food specialist.[/size]


Back to the subject at hand, do any of you with personal, first-hand experience of the Denon C700/751 ALSO have personal, first-hand experience of the Etymotic ER4P? I'm very reluctant to buy a pair of 'phones that routinely penetrate deeply into my ear canal but if it's the only practical way to obtain sonic satisfaction, to my taste, I'd be willing to at least consider it. Therefore, I'd be interested to hear a reliable 'C700-vs-ER4P' comparison from somebody who's owned both these items. Yes, this will still be subject to personal preferences, but since I know how the C700 sounds to me, a relative comparison between the two might still prove very useful to me.

Sadly, anything more expensive (e.g. moulded) is not viable for me at the present time. I'm also aware that the Super.fi pro 5 is known to have a bass reproduction even more powerful than the C700 so that would not be a good choice for me, good though they might be in many other aspects of music reproduction. Given that many people have said that the ER4P is slighlty light in the bass, I wonder if that might prove 'neutral' to my ears, since so many people these days seem to consider excessive (in the not-strictly-neutral sense, I mean) to BE 'neutral' or at least 'ideal'. I'm not, I assure you, 'bass-paranoid' in the least. I just expect good balance across the frequency spectrum - something which is not appreciated by many modern ears, accustomed to the excessive artificial influences of certain engineers and producers who frequently seem to sacrifice fidelity at the altar of boom or tizz, perhaps at the bidding of the record companies, or for the purposes of radio broadcast, where increased bass and treble are deemed beneficial, due to broadcasting compression.


John

 

[shigzeo]

i use audio technica fine fit pieces that go on at micro armature driver iems - great fit and much more comfortable for small ear canals. the denon are great phones - just a little hard to drive for most portables - hence the boomy bass or just uncontrolled or abruptness of the sound.

when driven well or just getting burned into their sound, they are great!

 

[Rickio]

I don't have the etys but have the shure scl4 which is originally called shure e4c and it's often compared to the etys and is very close to its neutral sound.

From what I read and have heard I think the etys would likely please you. You can always amp or boost the bass which I sometimes do with my scl4. The sound is so clear and crisp.

From my own experience with the scl4's and reading, its said these iem's respond very well to amping and equalizing.

 

[shigzeo]

i actuallly do not do well with armatures. i came to denon from um2/er4s/e500 land. i liked those esp the ety for dance, but... i got headaches and fast tinnitus. the denon and atrio are my home now. i actually find the er4 series to be good but hardly neutral. they are like a constant plunge up the next high wall of a jet coaster.

i am glad you like the shures, they are great manufacterur. i find myself just the type that only goes now for good dynammik drivers. i may eventually try the victor fx500 - wood housing to get a slightly more soft sound but not the plasticy feel that comes sometimes from the likes of atrio