Anti- Static Gun and CD Players

[edstrelow]

I still own a peizo electric gun from my turntable days. For those unfamiliar with this item, it produces a high voltage from a small pin at the tip, when the gun's trigger is pressed. It's high enough voltage that you can see a flame in dim light and smell Ozone. Held close to a vinyl record the gun would reduce the static charge noticeably. For example you go blow off dust which has been sticking to the lp disc.

After reading about possible bad effects of static on cd playback, I tried it with my cd's, basically holding the disc close to the cd spindle while pressing the gun (I am using a top loading CEC machine, which feeds a Monarchy Classic jitter reducer and Musical Fidelity A324 192 DAC). I am generally listening with a Stax SRM3 amp and 404 phones. I will start playing an untreated disc and then decide to try the piezo gun and am nearly always struck by the improvement in sound, generally in terms of increased dynamics and that the sound is less veiled after treatment.

I have not been as struck by the improvement with my drawer machines although I do not have a drawer machine with as good of sound as the top-loader and components. So I wonder if part of the effect is to neutralize static on the disc compartment and laser.

The only explanations I can think of are reducing dust which may be sticking to the disc or laser, or eliminating electrostatic charges which may be pulling the laser and disc out of allignment.

Anyon else with any experience here?

 

[Twombly]

Fo' seriously?

I'm guessing it's just placebo, but whatever. If it were pulling the laser out of alignment, the result would be artifacting/skipping, not just a little distortion.

 

[edstrelow]

This is a no dbt forum and claiming a placebo effect is making the same type of argument i.e.You didn't hear it, you couldn't prove it.

You are in no position to dispute anyone's observations unless you were present to hear the same system under the same conditions, and even then, in the event of a dispute, there would be an issue of which listener has better hearing and discrimination.

I also think that before you challenge someone's observation, to have any credibility yourself, you need to at least try to replicate this type of situation.

I may surprise you to know that most of us have heard of placebo effects before, some like myself, have even done psychophysical research. Claims of placebo effect, or the need for double blind testing add almost nothing to the discourse. Good research is hard to do and little or nothing in audo development has arisen from such work. Most equipment is developed by designers with their own "golden ear."

I have repeated this observation many times. I don't hear the same effect with all players, so it is not obviously a general placebo effect. I tend to think it's real.

I was hoping to hear from someone with a similar experience to help figure out what is happening.

 

[Todd R]

Hitting your CD with anti static is nothing new.
Mapleshade makes a similar device (But I use it mostly on my LP's) The Bendini clarifier also does this. Many CD treatments have anti static properties as well.
TR

 

[]|[ GorE]

seriously,what sort of static ? how do you store your cds ?

 

[edstrelow]

My CD's are stored in jewel boxes.

Again I am curious as to the explanation may be of what effect static may have on cd player operation. Rubbing plastic discs would be a good way to generate static charges, but spinning them too? Static could potentially affect electrical circuits, since it is a form of electrical attraction. Is it a source of potential distortion in electronics, like emf, rf and magnetic fields?
http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/CD_tweaks.html ha some discussion of static but no explanation.

 

[philodox]

I used to use a statmat with my old CD player, but it doesn't work all that well with my new slot loader so I was forced to part company with it. [It would get stuck in the tray]

I found that if I listened for some time without the statmat and then used it there would be a slight increase in resolution and a tighter sound. If I then took away the statmat there would be no change. If I then added it again there would again be no change. If I shelved it for a while and then used it, I would notice the same increase in resolution and tightening of the lower registers. This tells me that the change that it made was to the transport mechanism itself and not the media. Over time the static would build up and have a [very slight] adverse affect on the sound. Using the statmat would get rid of this temporarily. After realizing this I used the statmat all the time for peace of mind.

That said, the improvement was very slight and my old source was quite cheap. I would imagine that most hi-fi sources out there have taken this into account and likely would not benifit much from the statmat.

This anti static gun sounds interesting, but if you are 'blasting' the media with it and finding an improvement it seems to be the opposite of my findings.

 

[edstrelow]

This anti static gun sounds interesting, but if you are 'blasting' the media with it and finding an improvement it seems to be the opposite of my findings.
Philodox

Maybe not, I am holding the disc very close to the cd player well when the gun is being used.

As regards, quality of players, I have had this player for many years but only recently upgraded it by adding a more modern DAC and jitter reducer (as well as repairing the player. ) I had tried the static gun with the old player and only been moderately sure I was hearing something. The newer set-up is a major improvment in sound and the static effects seem even more pronounced.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow Maybe not, I am holding the disc very close to the cd player well when the gun is being used.

True, it could be the actual mechanism that is being affected. It is a hard thing to directly compair since the benifits are lasting... You need to spend some time with a static removal device before you can be sure of the benifits. For this reason it will always be considered snake oil by those without the patience.

 

[omedon]

Mapleshade recommends using the Ionoclast on your power cables and interconnects as well. Might want to give it a shot.

I am interested in these devices as well as they are relatively cheap and reusable unlike auric illuminator and other treatments.

 

[Afroide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow This is a no dbt forum and claiming a placebo effect is making the same type of argument i.e.You didn't hear it, you couldn't prove it. You are in no position to dispute anyone's observations unless you were present to hear the same system under the same conditions, and even then, in the event of a dispute, there would be an issue of which listener has better hearing and discrimination. I also think that before you challenge someone's observation, to have any credibility yourself, you need to at least try to replicate this type of situation. I may surprise you to know that most of us have heard of placebo effects before, some like myself, have even done psychophysical research. Claims of placebo effect, or the need for double blind testing add almost nothing to the discourse. Good research is hard to do and little or nothing in audo development has arisen from such work. Most equipment is developed by designers with their own "golden ear." I have repeated this observation many times. I don't hear the same effect with all players, so it is not obviously a general placebo effect. I tend to think it's real. I was hoping to hear from someone with a similar experience to help figure out what is happening.

It could be real....

A fear by most sane people of audiophile claims of tricks to improve sound quality are also real. I'd tend to think that this working is not possible, since the info is picked up via light, and thus should not be subject to magnetic or electrical interference.

If anyone has a CD player with digital out, however, it should be an easy thing to measure - dump it to a wav file on a PC with and without the anti static gun, then analyze them.

 

[imported_dom_]

you do know light is an electro magnetic wave right?

 

[Jeff Wong]

edstrelow - My brother has a Zerostat gun from many years ago that I've been meaning to ask to borrow. I'm curious to try it on a variety of things in my system (LPs included.) On my old CD transport, I found the CD Blacklight mat indeed lowered the noisefloor, but I was always bothered that the glow weakened over time and I suspected would be inconsistent in terms of performance for the duration of a full length CD. It also proved to be a pain to keep charging under the fluorescent light to bother with... I also switched to a Stable Platter mechanism transport at some point and never got the mat with the different sized hole. So, I've found it does appear that things counterintuitive to what many people believe about "bits is bits" (which elicit the snide comments like you've received) can affect CD playback. I'll see if my brother can unearth his Zerostat and lend it to me. I'll try it out on my transport and CD. I'm also curious to hear if it has an effect on the Medusa-like mess of power cords feeding all my gear. It may take awhile before I report back. My brother's place is under construction and he may not have easy access to the gun.

 

[Mr.PD]

Static electricity builds up on objects flying through the air. I see no reason why a CD spinning in a player would be immune from static build up.
I can't say exactly what negative effects are caused by static, but I believe that any method of discharging static should be beneficial.

philodox, after reading your post, I come to a different conclusion than you about the statmat. I think it was working on the disc itself, and it just takes a while for the disc to build up enough static to be noticeable after removing the mat. It could be working on both the component and the disc also.

 

[bigshot]

Do you suppose the drive hub in a CD player might be grounded?

See ya
Steve