[strawBoss]

After much lurking and hours of reading ( this place rocks ) I’ve come to the realization that maybe it’s just better ask rather than piece all this info together myself.

Here’s the sitch; my “night job” is freelance videographer and after far too much day money spent on a HD video set up of portable lights, packs, screens, filters, gels, tripods, lens’ and a solid pro camera things are starting to pay for themselves. Now it’s time to take the audio up a notch. Most of the work I do is travel based and or sports/outdoor adventure which means whatever gear I get has to embrace the confines of air travel, resist Mother Nature, and accept reasonable wear and tear (I certainly don’t abuse my equipment, but it can’t fall apart, or let me down, delicate equip need not apply).

The microphone upgrade has been narrowed down to a couple, however if anyone is inclined I’m still open to options (shotgun), but what I really need is advice on audio from the camera to my ears. Specifically cables, portable amp, headphones. Since I’m usually a bit of a one man band (no audio guy) I monitor audio from the camera headphone mini-jack ( not perfect but this is a work in progress and eventually I’ll invest in a unit such as Sound Devices 702T Digital Recorder and go completely separate with audio, but one step at a time.) It’s become obvious from reading here that there are better amp/headphone combinations and while I’d like to collect and experiment my location and funds necessitate a better then “adequate” first try.

Parameters and possible preferences:
Amp:
-Amp under $500 USD
-Size – Predator or smaller. It has to either fit clipped to the camera on or in a vest chest pocket)
-Reasonably uncoloured (for obvious audio reasons)
-Enough juice for full size cans (headphone criteria below)
-Good battery life
-Reliable (every company says their stuff is reliable but we all know that isn’t so)
-DAC? (I do a fair amount of rough editing with a laptop while on the road)
-Has gotta love the headphones it’s hooked up with (hence the reason for the post in here and not over in the headphone section - the sum of the parts.)

Headphones:
-Closed? (most fellas I’ve worked with use closed but you guys know head-fi best so I’m open to options, but no in ear, I’m not that open to options.)
-Accurate and uncoloured (I’ll end up using them for hours of travel entertainment with a pod but that will be the secondary use.)
-Reasonably durable
-Folding (minor requirement – nice but not critical)
- $350-ish USD ( yes I know, the price is lower than the amp, but a guys gotta draw a line even if it’s blurry, but that price zone appears to keep me in the right ball park)
-Prefer no coiled cord
-Suggested phones from the audio/video folks: Sony MDR7506, Sony MDR7509, Audio-Technica ATH-M50, Beyer 770pro

So, I realize this is slightly redundant question, given the recent “pro-audio monitoring” question but this is a from scratch monitoring situation - I’m looking combined sound, portability and don’t have a current favourite headphone.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

[VooX]

strawBoss, I may be able to give some advice having done a bunch location film/TV recording over the years (mostly years ago, though).

I think you are overthinking your audio needs on the location rig. I haven't met a single location recordist that didn't either come directly out of the camera (when recording audio straight onto the video tape), or monitor out of their portable mixer directly (more often the case as there usually is an external audio recorder, eg. Nagra, and mixer).

As well, I choose to use my Fostex T20RP mk II cans for location recording as they are cheap to replace at around $100 and flat enough to get an accurate idea of what is being recorded. The Sony headphones you listed are very common among videographers as they are collapsable and so-so flat (Sony has more of a disco smile EQ than the Fostex). I also haven't met a closed A/T that I like for location work. They tend to be fatiquing to wear, un-flat, and break easily, in my experience. The Beyer's are decent but I find the frequency range limited (especially bass) and an emphasis at 600 Hz, IIRC, which sounds unnatural, although this more comes into play when you are listening for recreation.

Overall, IMHO, the Fostex T20 are the best choice. Some might prefer more expensive Fostex models, but I find all of them to have very unnatural bass emphasis which sounds boomy and messes up the flat response. These cans won't blow you away as they are VERY limited above 10kHZ and below 125 Hz, but as far as cost and flatness go, they can't be beat, IMHO. The Sony models would be my second choice.

99.99% of the time when doing location sound, I am using headphones to monitor for background noises that the mic picks up that our ears won't. Typically, even on major movies, the location sound has quite a bit of background noise and needs quite a bit of "sweetening", or even ADR/foley, in post-production.

When I do location recordings, often times, as you mentioned, the weather is less than ideal, so we do crazy things to get the job done. Carrying around packages of unlubricated condoms (good luck finding them) and baby-powder free latex gloves (easier to find) is par for the course as we often wrap our boom mics in condoms outside, and same goes with any wireless beltpacks that may be used with a hidden lavalier mic getting wrapped with the non-love glove.

Too much stuff gets damaged, dirty, and wet on location for me to ever bring a great pair of HPs or even consider bringing an amp. IMHO a decent pair of HPs (closed type for good isolation) coming out of the camera/mixer is all you need to get the job done. Less to carry, less to damage, and less to fuss about when the shooting schedule is in its 18th hour and you are exhausted.

Don't skimp on your shotgun mic or your boom arm. Quality really counts here as garbage in/garbage out. With the boom pole too, as you want one that is light (your arms will thank you), collapsable, and that does not transmit handling noise to the mic (assisted by a shockmount)

I hope that helped, I just estimated what your requirements were. I focused mainly on the location sound aspect to your problem, as there is plenty of advice regarding good DAC amps for coming off of laptops on these forums.

 

[strawBoss]

Great advice VooX and much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to share.

I ended up finding this forum because I was given some advice to consider a headphone amp to help pick up the unwanted background, to which I said; "HUH a what?" Research lead me here and I've subsequently gotten a little over zealous by all the serious sound love in here. Kinda contageous and dangerous on the pocket book.

The mic's I've looking at are the Sanken CS-3e or the Schoeps CMIT5u (dreamy and complete with sticker shock)

Fostex T20 - I'm checking into them now. Having one less piece of equipment that won't make me cringe when it gets damp or dirty at this point is good. I still think I'm going to pick up a portable amp though, probably the RSA Mustang just for sheer pleasure, and they look to be well made to boot.

Again thanks for the tips and advice - time to go add "un-lubricated" condoms to the kit list.

 

[VooX]

I love the sound of Schoeps shotgun mics, very nice choice. Not familiar with the sound of Sanken mics, but I think I know a few guys who use them. As with anything (including HPs and amps) try before you buy is a good mantra.

The Fostex T20, like I said, are not thrilling to the ear. But they are flat and cheap so good for pro use on the road.

And if your girlfriend asks about the un-lubricated condoms, tell her you don't care about her comfort during sex anymore... see how that flies

 

[qusp]

as I actually told VooX in his thread; the RSA amps are nice sounding pieces of kit... to some, (i'm not keen myself.. too coloured) but if you plan on using it for any frequency response critical work at all, I would stay away from them. out of the ones 'predator size' I would go the pico or iqube (<- a bit larger, but not too bad) they are MUCH flatter in the FR. the RSA house sound tends to be quite warm in the bottom end with slightly exaggerated bass. the pico is fairly flat, but still a touch forward in the mids, the bass is extended and quite nice tight and flat with extended sweet sweet highs. transparency is pretty good too; although the Iqube is MUCH more transparent, some might call it boring its so transparent. I recommended the lisa III to VooX; but he had a different purpose and wasnt quite as concerned with size (its also outside your budget) if you would like a dac too then the pico with dac goes for $500 and is arguably the best portable dac going around these parts. at least until the Iqube 2 with dac starts to come of the shelves. I dont have any location specific experience, so i'll leave that to other posters, but sounds like youve been given some really good advice already from VooX.

for closed cans you might consider the Denon D2000 though, although might have too much bass unmodded, I would also stay away from Audiotechnica the senn HD25 would do nicely is closed not too expensive, has a replaceable cable and is also quite compact.

 

[strawBoss]

qusp - thanks for recommendation on the pico, I'm doing some extra reading on it now and the DAC certainly piques my interest. Admittedly I'd overlooked it until you mentioned it in Voox's thread. There was a point during all my thread hoping that I'd completely convinced myself that a silver Mustang with a pair of K701 would be the most attractive rig. It's the cinematography habit... how does it look? Tough to break sometimes.

Now the mention of the D2000's is interesting, early on they were near the top of my list but the developed bass mentioned by others shyed me away. Not to put words in your mouth but; a mod will clean that up, particularly when paired with a pico? I'll dig into that and consider it, maybe look at a pair of mod'd Denons as a second step.

I'm making plans to try and demo the short list of headphone you guys are providing. The amp I'm just going to have to jump in the pool on.

Voox - with her it might just fly - once! The real trouble is explaining the bulk box of them in my luggage on the next overseas trip. "No really honey, they're for keeping my shotgun dry" "So, that's what you're calling it now!!"

 

[qusp]

no problem on the pico; it really does shine as a dac; with a nice amp section too. as an amp only its a very nice sounding amp, but the dac is superb; many people end up using it at home as a home dac. It has much higher output as a dac too and IMO its sexier than the mustang anyway. there are some really nice colour combos to choose from and you can get custom like mine for $40 I think it was

heres mine

as far as the modded D2000 or MD2000 the mod when done by mark lawnton, the inventor of the mod, takes it WAY outside your price-range; but yeah the mod tighens up the somewhat flatulent (marks words, but I agree) bass response and in the process brings the mids forward, making for a much flatter sounding headphone. Its still not really flat though, but getting there. you can actually do the mod yourself, though here's some info here and the instructions on doing it yourself are here, its not expensive to do the mods to the stock phone, it just takes some time to do it properly. But if you want to save yourself a bit of time and have a bit of extra $$ to spend, you can buy already modded lawnton audio woodies here, then you just need to add a bit of the damping and stuff the earpads. i'm in the middle of finishing mine. my woodies wont be here for a couple of weeks and i'm doing the re-cable myself. but my D2000 are already partially modded with teh earpads done and most of the damping; it really changes the character of this wonderful headphone. you dont need the woodies, but they sure do look great and the extra damping they add really opens up the sound. no more farty noises. so you could come out of it with a woody for about $500 or a modded stock D2000 for not much more than the price of the headphone. the drivers and everything else bar the cable are the same in D2000 as the D2000 just the woodcups and cable are the only difference.

I love these headphones and I spent enough time with stevekelby's MD5000 last year to know that I had to make them mine. teh fully modded version is compared to the worlds top closed dynamic headphones

 

[strawBoss]

Nice set-up and a good shot - sharp, clean, with an almost alien feel to it. I like.

I've read the size descriptions for the pico, but seeing it next to a "touch" gives me perspective. Thanks.

I've also finally admitted to myself that I'm no longer going to hide behind the excuse that I need new headphones and an amp for "work". I'll pick up either a pair for the Sony's or the Fostex for video work (thanks Voox), then after I've rebounded from the mic purchase, spill some more money on something to enjoy. Hell it looks like I've found a new money hole, time to pull the Rotel and vinyl out of storage.

Cheers