[Ancipital]

..for finding that valves don't appeal at all? 
 
I see all the excited "tube rolling" threads, and all the chin stroking. All I can think is that I want an amp to give me amplification to drive my headphones as cleanly as possible, and if I want to mess with the sound, I'll have at it with parametric EQ, rather than distortion induced by some fragile and hot glass tubes from some Russian on ebay.
 
I suspect it's not a million miles away from my lack of enthusiasm for vinyl, which I mentally bracket with the tube world.
 
So, does this make me a bad person? Should I be less closed-minded and embrace the romance of glowy stuff from the stone age that's easy to break? 
 
I'm asking here because I feel like it's OK to challenge people to show their reasoning. On the rest of the forum, it tends to degenerate into defensive one-upmanship and passive-aggressive willy waving when you ask for underlying logic or factual underpinnings. The Sound Science forum seems far more able to sustain vigorous debate without any toys being thrown out of prams or saltiness. Usually.
 
What's your opinion, and why?

 

[93EXCivic]

  ..for finding that valves don't appeal at all? 
 
I see all the excited "tube rolling" threads, and all the chin stroking. All I can think is that I want an amp to give me amplification to drive my headphones as cleanly as possible, and if I want to mess with the sound, I'll have at it with parametric EQ, rather than distortion induced by some fragile and hot glass tubes from some Russian on ebay.
 
I suspect it's not a million miles away from my lack of enthusiasm for vinyl, which I mentally bracket with the tube world.
 
So, does this make me a bad person? Should I be less closed-minded and embrace the romance of glowy stuff from the stone age that's easy to break?

 
Do whatever makes you happy.
 
Personally I like the romance of glowy tubes. I know technically solid states are probably better but I guess I like them for the same reason I love old houses, mechanical watches and vintage sports cars. I know new houses, quartz watches and modern sports cars all perform better but there is certain nostalgia, romance and style that the older stuff has and I enjoy that. Also they look awesome.

 

[dazzerfong]

I'll be honest: the only​ reason I ever seriously considered buying a tube amp was because some of them are so damn pretty​, I'll use it as an awesome ornament on my table. I mean, look at the WA7:

That looks​ really good. Like $1000 good. And it's functional as an amp! 2 birds, 1 stone if you ask me.

 

[Ancipital]

Bless both of you, I love the honesty of "I like it" and "it's glowy". That's actually a useful and informative answer, weirdly. Reminds me of why I love my old Leica M6!
 
See? I knew that asking in here would get fewer defensive, angry responses from fragile little souls 

 

[StanD]

IMO, the better the tube amp the more its sounds like a good SS Amp. Good SS Amps have long ago exceeded our capacity to detect distortion (JDD) and have flat FRs well beyond what any human being can hear. I'd say that the actual benefit to a guitarist when they overdrive a tube amp to get a certain type of distortion unlike an SS amp is not desired in a hi-fi listening station. Modern SS guitar amps try their best to simulate this distortion and some do a decent job of it. How this translates to hi-fi listening kit escapes my imagination as I do not want any clipping or overdrive distortion, no matter how soft it is.
If anyone likes the look or has a nostalgic impulse for tubes, I have no qualms with them. I'm not a fan of the syrupy, even harmonic and other types of crowds that are out there waving the flag. Again I have no qualms with their purchases, only that their banter can confuse the uninitiated into excessive expense of time and money.

 

[Ancipital]

If anyone likes the look or has a nostalgic impulse for tubes, I have no qualms with them. I'm not a fan of the syrupy, even harmonic and other types of crowds that are out there waving the flag. Again I have no qualms with their purchases, only that their banter can confuse the uninitiated into excessive expense of time and money.

 
Yeah, I have no particular quarrel, either. I just want to understand why- as the downsides of fragile short-lived hot tubes are considerable. Its a terrible thing, suspecting that someone's having loads of fun that you don't yet understand!
 
Hell, I love log fires. I am not about to point and laugh unless we get some actual audiophile lunacy to chew on.
 
I'm starting to suspect that valves are audio hygge maybe? 

 

[StanD]

   
Yeah, I have no particular quarrel, either. I just want to understand why- as the downsides of fragile short-lived hot tubes are considerable. Its a terrible thing, suspecting that someone's having loads of fun that you don't yet understand!
 
Hell, I love log fires. I am not about to point and laugh unless we get some actual audiophile lunacy to chew on.
 
I'm starting to suspect that valves are audio hygge maybe? 

Keeps hobbyists engaged. I prefer to spend that time listening to music rather than chase what I think are fairy tales.

 

[93EXCivic]

  Keeps hobbyists engaged. I prefer to spend that time listening to music rather than chase what I think are fairy tales.

Might be a little harsh way to put it but I'd agree to some extent with this for me. I love messing with stuff.
 
I am constantly doing projects. I am rebuilding my garage, resto-modding a '64 Triumph Spitfire and building watches. I am just getting into DIY audio stuff. Just finished modifying a Monoprice 8323 and my next projects are learning to make cables (not that I think the make a bit of difference) and modifying my Bravo V2 hybrid amp.

 

[Ancipital]

  Might be a little harsh way to put it but I'd agree to some extent with this for me. I love messing with stuff.
 
I am constantly doing projects. I am rebuilding my garage, resto-modding a '64 Triumph Spitfire and building watches. I am just getting into DIY audio stuff. Just finished modifying a Monoprice 8323 and my next projects are learning to make cables (not that I think the make a bit of difference) and modifying my Bravo V2 hybrid amp.

..but does it keep you out of trouble?

 

[StanD]

  Might be a little harsh way to put it but I'd agree to some extent with this for me. I love messing with stuff.
 
I am constantly doing projects. I am rebuilding my garage, resto-modding a '64 Triumph Spitfire and building watches. I am just getting into DIY audio stuff. Just finished modifying a Monoprice 8323 and my next projects are learning to make cables (not that I think the make a bit of difference) and modifying my Bravo V2 hybrid amp.

To me, the things you list are legitimate hobby activities. But people making up stuff to prove they have something special or another person must do what they dictate or else they have an inferior setup. To me the worst is when a forum mob foists an anecdote based unsubstantiated dictate and belittle those that do not go along with the game. Usually there is no science involved or if there is it is usually misrepresented. I'd rather spend the time replacing the bushings on my anti-sway bars with something a little bit stiffer.

 

[EnOYiN]

I own quite a bit of tube gear in the form of guitar amps. The reason that many guitarists still choose tube amps mainly has to do with a certain sound they got used to I think. On many of the records people know and love you can hear tube amps. So we're pretty much indoctrinated to like tube amplification and tube overdrive. It also has to do with the availability of good solid state amplification. Suppose you're going to a guitar store and they've got one solid state amp which costs $100 and one tube amp which costs $1000. Guess which one is going to sound better.

That said, for clean sounds solid state guitar amps sound pretty similar to tube amps and you'll have a hard time picking them apart. See here for an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izfIPlgMkYk While they're certainly different I wouldn't say that one or the other sounds particularly bad. Something to consider is that the solid state amp in this example is about $300 and the tube amp can be had for around $1000.

Now seeing as clean sounds are the only ones you'll be using for playback I don't really see the point of tube amps for that purpose any more.

 

[icebear]

I found a great sounding set up with my HD800, fed fully balanced by Marantz SA11s3 as source and a headamp GSX-Mk2.
 
I would go nuts if this level of enjoyment listening to the music was not stable but was guaranteed to degrade over time and with a sudden poof and spark go dark completely maybe even damaging some other equipment involved. And then I would go chasing rather exotic NOS glass tubes ordering from obscure places behind the Ural mountains and hope that the valuable freight will be properly packed and will arrive safely ... no thank you. I won't waste time and money on this kind of adventure.
 
Once you have a good sounding source, all you need is a wire with gain to keep it that way.

 
PS: And I forgot ... I don't always have time to wait an hour for tubes getting to a stable temperature to sound their very glowing best.

 

[StanD]

  I found a great sounding set up with my HD800, fed fully balanced by Marantz SA11s3 as source and a headamp GSX-Mk2.
 
I would go nuts if this level of enjoyment listening to the music was not stable but was guaranteed to degrade over time and with a sudden poof and spark go dark completely maybe even damaging some other equipment involved. And then I would go chasing rather exotic NOS glass tubes ordering from obscure places behind the Ural mountains and hope that the valuable freight will be properly packed and will arrive safely ... no thank you. I won't waste time and money on this kind of adventure.
 
Once you have a good sounding source, all you need is a wire with gain to keep it that way.

 
PS: And I forgot ... I don't always have time to wait an hour for tubes getting to a stable temperature to sound their very glowing best.

I'm not sure that you've made your position clear.

 

[Argyris]

I've always wanted to try a tube amp, just to see what it actually sounds like. I'm not interested in owning one, unless somehow the sound is a revelation to me, but it's one of those things I feel I should experience at some point. Paradoxically, I would be more interested in a characteristically "tubey" tube amp than one of the ostensibly better ones that just resemble a standard solid state amp; the point of the exercise for me is for it to sound different, not just be the equivalent of a solid state amp but with consumable parts.
 
Vinyl, on the other hand, I do not like at all. It degrades just from playing it, it requires care, equipment and space I'm not willing to devote to it; and above all, I don't like the way it sounds. It's clearly colored and in a way I don't like. I figure that since I didn't grow up with it, I don't have an affinity for that kind of sound. It definitely isn't more "real" sounding than a well-mastered digital recording; if anything, it's less transparent to me because it has an obvious signature.

 

[SodaBoy]

Nixie tube clocks are the answer, if you want the warm aesthetics of tubes without a tube amp. I don't need a tube amp for the tube sound, everything can be done DSP side. Even the euphonic distortion can be emulated with plugins, and the FR likewise.
 


 
Everyone seeks beauty. I would be lying if I said I never considered tube amps. A good visual experience can augment a good listening experience. However, it is important to be responsible and to not recommend tube amps as some kind of savior for poor tonality in flawed headphones.
 
A photo of a Darkvoice 336SE from Copperchef. I don't think anyone can deny that it is beautiful. This was an amp that I have listened to personally, and carefully considered before walking down the solid state path.