7hz Timeless 3.5mm to balanced question

[RubberduckzillA]

Hi,

So I have a pair of tin hifi P1s but I wanted to get the timeless too based on reviews. I have an old Fiio Killamanjaro amp I use. The question I have, is I am not super familiar with balance vs unbalanced. I know it offers better volume control etc. Can I just swap the cable out with a balance 2.5mm or 4.4mm or is there an actual hardware difference in the 2.5mm and 4.4mm timeless models? Also yes I am aware that my current amp does not do balanced output but all the new FIIO amps seem to be DAC/AMP combos, so no Idea what to replace them with. I currently have a Plenue D1, I am based in the UK and thinkign of getting a D3 in the future which does have a balanced output.

So to summarise, can I just swap the cable on my 3.5mm timeless to a balanced one? What are considered the best cables? Also what are solid portable AMPs with balanced outputs?

 

[WilliamBlake]

Hi,

So I have a pair of tin hifi P1s but I wanted to get the timeless too based on reviews. I have an old Fiio Killamanjaro amp I use. The question I have, is I am not super familiar with balance vs unbalanced. I know it offers better volume control etc. Can I just swap the cable out with a balance 2.5mm or 4.4mm or is there an actual hardware difference in the 2.5mm and 4.4mm timeless models? Also yes I am aware that my current amp does not do balanced output but all the new FIIO amps seem to be DAC/AMP combos, so no Idea what to replace them with. I currently have a Plenue D1, I am based in the UK and thinkign of getting a D3 in the future which does have a balanced output.

So to summarise, can I just swap the cable on my 3.5mm timeless to a balanced one? What are considered the best cables? Also what are solid portable AMPs with balanced outputs?

Yes, you can just swap the cable from unbalanced to balanced, 7hz has removable mmcx connectors.
Look at Xinhs on aliexpress, something like this: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005...dd16627215586565291ee223!12000028572199138!sh

 

[RCracer777]

I've got a 3.5 and a 4.4 cable for my Timeless. It does improve the sound when driven balanced too so it's worth it to go balanced with it. But swapping cables based on what you need at that moment isn't good for the connectors, especially for mmcx.

What I'd suggest is getting a 4.4 (my preference) or 2.5 balanced cable and using adapters to convert it to the other terminations. This also is a benefit if you have more IEM's that you want to run balanced as you can use the adapters for them as well.

It's possible to get a cable with swappable terminations but these are generally more expensive, especially if you have multiple IEM's as each needs one of these cables.

 

[RubberduckzillA]

I've got a 3.5 and a 4.4 cable for my Timeless. It does improve the sound when driven balanced too so it's worth it to go balanced with it. But swapping cables based on what you need at that moment isn't good for the connectors, especially for mmcx.

What I'd suggest is getting a 4.4 (my preference) or 2.5 balanced cable and using adapters to convert it to the other terminations. This also is a benefit if you have more IEM's that you want to run balanced as you can use the adapters for them as well.

It's possible to get a cable with swappable terminations but these are generally more expensive, especially if you have multiple IEM's as each needs one of these cables.

Hi,

Thanks to you and William for the input. I was thinking along the same lines with the connectors. Right now everythign is 3.5mm, so I think i've done the right thing for now, but definitely I want to find a high quality mmcx balanced 2.5 or 4.4mm cable and then use adapters where needed. If I moved to a new AMP or even just a D3 then a 2.5 or 4.4mm with adapter would be great. I'm assuming you said 4.4 as it's easier to go down to 3.5mm in terms of adapter availability vs the 2.5 up to 3.5?
My killamanjaro has been in use for about 8 years and the battery could do with replacing, but ideally i'd liek a replacement but I only hav efamilarity with FIIO portable amps and every single one has a bloody DAC now.

 

[RCracer777]

Thanks to you and William for the input. I was thinking along the same lines with the connectors. Right now everythign is 3.5mm, so I think i've done the right thing for now, but definitely I want to find a high quality mmcx balanced 2.5 or 4.4mm cable and then use adapters where needed. If I moved to a new AMP or even just a D3 then a 2.5 or 4.4mm with adapter would be great. I'm assuming you said 4.4 as it's easier to go down to 3.5mm in terms of adapter availability vs the 2.5 up to 3.5?

It's not necessarily easier to go down in size, or up for that matter (but with 3.5 to 6.35 it is easier to go up). The 4.4mm adapters are generally more expensive to get than the 2.5 equivalent. But it is a stronger connector (given equal construction quality) than 2.5 and stays in place better while in use (less likely to come out).
It's also becoming more common to see on DAP's and dac/amp's while the 2.5 is becoming less common on newer devices. There are a lot more benefits to the 4.4 but they are heavily dependent on the implementation so I'm not going into that here.

 

[RubberduckzillA]

It's not necessarily easier to go down in size, or up for that matter. The 4.4mm adapters are generally more expensive to get than the 2.5 equivalent. But it is a stronger connector (given equal construction quality) than 2.5 and stays in place better while in use (less likely to come out).
It's also becoming more common to see on DAP's and dac/amp's while the 2.5 is becoming less common on newer devices. There are a lot more benefits to the 4.4 but they are heavily dependent on the implementation so I'm not going into that here.

Fair enough, is there a way to bypass the DACs on these DAPS? I've got a feeling the D3 might completely negate the need for a portable AMP with it's balanced output.

 

[Ohmboy]

I am not super familiar with balance vs unbalanced.

It really comes down to the Amp or Dac/Amp implementation tbh...if it has a balanced out then probably best to use that, if not and it's only SE and delivers enough power for your transducer then that's fine too...plenty of high end Amp, Dac/Amp combo's that are SE only so I shouldn't over think it

 

[RubberduckzillA]

It really comes down to the Amp or Dac/Amp implementation tbh...if it has a balanced out then probably best to use that, if not and it's only SE and delivers enough power for your transducer then that's fine too...plenty of high end Amp, Dac/Amp combo's that are SE only so I shouldn't over think it

Y ea, I just got my 7HZ 10 misn ago, and they are actually so much louder than my p1s as is it is nuts. I've had to knock my D1 down 30 notches+ of volume and turn the bass boost off my killamanjaro. It's is NUTS

 

[RCracer777]

Fair enough, is there a way to bypass the DACs on these DAPS? I've got a feeling the D3 might completely negate the need for a portable AMP with it's balanced output.

It's not like you can turn a dac off in a DAP, but some DAP's like my AP80 Pro allow the USB connector to be used as a audio out so external dac/amp's can be used with it. If it's a android based DAP it generally has this functionality as it's baked into android itself. Generally it's not needed to use a portable amp with DAP's as they've got quite a bit of power, especially on balanced out. Besides, you can just use your phone in place of a DAP at that point.

One thing I forgot to say, get the balanced cable that matches the device of your liking, for the Plenue D3 it's a 2.5 mm.

 

[RubberduckzillA]

It's not like you can turn a dac off in a DAP, but some DAP's like my AP80 Pro allow the USB connector to be used as a audio out so external dac/amp's can be used with it. If it's a android based DAP it generally has this functionality as it's baked into android itself. Generally it's not needed to use a portable amp with DAP's as they've got quite a bit of power, especially on balanced out. Besides, you can just use your phone in place of a DAP at that point.

One thing I forgot to say, get the balanced cable that matches the device of your liking, for the Plenue D3 it's a 2.5 mm.

Yea thanks, I might be returning the 7hz tbh. They are extremely bassy. Far more bassy than I expected. Feels like bass is overpowering everything else.

 

[Ohmboy]

Feels like bass is overpowering everything else.

If you have OG Tin P1's then yeah the bass on Timeless will feel a bit ..I love my P1's depending on the genre..But Timeless is like a baby IER Z1R so give them "TIME" depending on your library and sound preferences they may well grow on you oh and Timeless is every tip dependent too.

 

[RubberduckzillA]

If you have OG Tin P1's then yeah the bass on Timeless will feel a bit ..I love my P1's depending on the genre..But Timeless is like a baby IER Z1R so give them "TIME" depending on your library and sound preferences they may well grow on you oh and Timeless is every tip dependent too.

I have started a return for the 7hz timeless, maybe I should give them more time but I found cymbals on them awful compared to the p1s, it just sounds like harsh noise than actual cymbals. Do you feel the same about the 7hz?

 

[Ohmboy]

it just sounds like harsh noise than actual cymbals. Do you feel the same about the 7hz?

No maybe you have a duff set? I really do like Timeless

 

[RubberduckzillA]

No maybe you have a duff set? I really do like Timeless

I actually plugged them into my bifrost 2 multibit and vali 2 hybrid. Direct compared with p1s. The timbre is worse and cymbals sound trash in comparison. The 7hz brings everything forward which is kind of nice but my god cymbals go from cymbals to just borderline noise so much detail is lost on that front. I'm definitely going to send them back. The cymbals plus the bass being a bit too strong kills them. It's a Shame but yea I like my cymbals too much to tolerate the 7hz. Especially when my P1s were sub 140 and the 7hz were 220.

The 7hz are way easier to drive though.