TOUR CLOSED - 64 Audio US CIEM Demo Tour - Tia Fourte' and U18 Tzar >>> Starting May 2017
Nov 14, 2017 at 12:29 PM Post #391 of 813
Mailing Logistics w/3 Demo Kits
Logistic questions have come up several times for the remaining tour members so I thought I would provide a little clarity in choosing the next member to ship to:
  1. First Come, First Serve: We are past the logistically friendly portion of the tour, so preference should be given to the next tour member in order of the tour. However, given three demo kits, please chose the most logistically friendly option when possible within the next three participants. Nobody should be skipped continually due to being logistically unfriendly.
  2. 3 Kits Overlap: Because there are three demo kits roaming the US, the next tour member will be contacted three times, therefore it is important to PM the next 3 tour members to save time and keep visibility within the tour members to assure that nobody is being skipped.
  3. Communicate: Life happens so please communicate availability and feel free to exchange turns to optimize your audition timing. This is assuming that everyone affected is ok with the arrangements and that they are not too complicated.
 
Nov 14, 2017 at 3:26 PM Post #393 of 813
If people weren't aware, it's pretty much the same price to ship across the country vs shipping to a state near you.
Agreed, the cost is the same using available fixed-price options. However, if not paying for quicker delivery, it can take a week or sometimes more to go coast to coast vs a day when within a couple hundred miles. Poor logistics turns an average 3-day mail time to a 5-day average quickly inflating the wait time for those at the end of the tour. Of course, this needs to be fair to those on a first come first serve scenario so any inconvenience should be limited to a couple of days, not a couple of weeks. There is no perfect answer, but doing our best.
 
Nov 15, 2017 at 10:08 AM Post #394 of 813
It doesn't get any better than this! You hear every little detail in the music, but they aren't analytical, they're really fun and musical! Tia Fourte, baby! Sometimes it is as if I am listening to open-back headphones.


20171115_090646.jpg
 
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Nov 15, 2017 at 3:20 PM Post #395 of 813
Thanks to Barra I was a participant in the U18 Tzar and Tia Forte tour. I've participated in other tours but due to having narrow ear canals I could rarely enjoy the I.E.M.s as the fit didn't accommodate my ears. This was not the case with these universals from 64 Audio.
My first experience with the Tzar and Forte took place at the RMAF canjam outside of Denver in 2016.
As most of you know who have attended these events, there are a lot of distractions which make it hard to fully evaluate your selections; however, this is not the case when you have an entire week with a tour kit. In 2016 when I first heard these I.E.M.s I was very impressed, and at the conclusion of the show I walked away thinking these were best of show. Well after spending countless hours with these I am even more impressed.

To my ears these 2 in-ears are very different and will appeal to differing tastes. To be upfront, I preferred the Tia Forte. My music preferences tilt toward amplified music such as rock, hard rock, fusion, progressive jazz, etc..but on the other hand I enjoy acoustic based music with a strong emphasis on jazz. For me it's much easier to evaluate equipment based on these genres of music because I know intimately how these instruments should sound both amplified and unamplified. Amplified instruments are more of a challenge because there are many more variables such as tube vs. solid state amps, Fender guitars vs. Gibson, vs. Ibanez, etc... effects pedals, microphones, so on and so forth. One of the challenges for the listener is knowing something about the musicians and their recording preferences which invariably effects what we hear in the music. The drum kit is difficult to faithfully reproduce accurately, and is also one that covers a good part of the frequency range when cymbals are included. Cymbals can be a real pain to reproduce, and with the sheer volume of different sounding cymbals it is a challenge for the producer and listener alike. As an example, some drummers prefer e.q. in the studio which unnaturally effects the sound of the drums. As a listener it's hard to judge whether or not the I.E.M. has colored the sound, and if we didn't know the drums were heavily e.q.'d we would blame the I.E.M. for messing up the drum sound. With heavily processed music these concerns are minimized, which makes it very hard to evaluate the sound quality of an I.E.M. because the standards for judging are different as timbre, pitch, and imaging are less important., but slam, and the visceral impact of the presentation is important.

For my evaluation I focused on recordings that are well mastered, featuring musicians/drummers who will fight with engineers that want to impose their idea of what sounds good. The musicians know what they want but are always challenged by engineers who have a formula.

As I unpacked the tour kit the first box to greet my eyes was the U18 Tzar, and so I tried these first. Right off the bat I felt the bass was overly emphasized, so I switched out the apex module which immediately made a big difference. Now the music was presented in a more balanced way with the bass being prominent in the mix, but not terribly intrusive. The Tzar presents the music in a full bodied manner, while still maintaining good pin point imaging on a realistic sound stage. 3 dimensional imaging is present with good depth, while instruments are easily identified from left to right, front to back. Vocals are front and center as they should be, and identifying the words being sung is good. The problem I have with the U18, which is very minor, is the bass which I feel colored the lower mid range ever so slightly. The sound of the kick drum, and toms are rendered very nicely with realistic resonance. The toms are full with dimension, while the kick drum is impactful, and again very full bodied. The problem is that in creating what I would consider a very realistic sound, the decay of the instruments in that region lingers a little too long which slightly effects the clarity in the lower mid range. The same is true for the bass guitar, but here, the fullness adversely effects the texture of the bass, especially as it relates to the reproduction of an acoustic double bass. The fullness of sound extends through the frequency range where guitars sound good, but lack that last bit of definition, and articulation.

On the other hand, the Tia Forte excels in the area of articulation, definition, airiness, resolution, and clarity. In comparison the U18 is only lacking because of the existence of the Forte. Guitars, violins, and horns sound very good. As an example, when a guitarist picks at that first note, the leading edge of the note is very hard to reproduce, but not so with the Forte. When a sax player blows into the horn to create that first note it sounds different than the sequence of notes that follow; here I'm talking about texture. When a jazz drummer rides the cymbals his cymbal strokes are what drives the rhythm. The definition, and articulation of the drum stick as it strikes the cymbal is both illuminating, and revealing. Hi-hat beats that I thought were quarter notes were in fact eighth notes. - The older jazz drummers typically used Zildjian K cymbals which are characterized by a dry sound with fast decay. While listening to an older recording featuring John Coltrane and Milton Freedman it became apparent that the drummer was using a Zildjian A cymbal as his ride cymbal, which was very rare 'as it produced a higher pitch with a longer decay; not a desirable trait back then. Moving down the scale, kick drums, and toms didn't quite have the natural resonance of the U18, but bass guitar was more textured with better note articulation. Vocals were very good with lyrics easily discerned. The sound stage is nice and wide, but not as deep as the U18, The imaging with the Forte is sharp, and focused with better spacing, or air between the instruments.

In conclusion, both monitors are excellent and will appeal to a wide variety of listeners. I personally prefer the Forte because I feel like I'm hearing what the engineer probably heard - with every detail highlighted in an open airy environment, but presented in a very cohesive, non clinical way. Dare I say musical. When listening to instruments I feel like I'm right there on stage with the musicians, particularly in terms of tone and pitch. I also think the implementation, and execution of Tia is better in the Forte. However, I think the U18 will appeal to a wider audience with its ability to switch out the apex modules offering big bass for those that like music where the bass is significantly heightened. You know, I have a confession to make, I didn't want to write down my impressions for fear that I would be forced to empty my wallet as I confirmed my thoughts and feelings. Oh well.
 
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Nov 15, 2017 at 3:33 PM Post #396 of 813
Thanks to Barra I was a participant in the U18 Tzar and Tia Forte tour. I've participated in other tours but due to having narrow ear canals I could rarely enjoy the I.E.M.s as the fit didn't accommodate my ears. This was not the case with these universals from 64 Audio.
My first experience with the Tzar and Forte took place at the RMAF canjam outside of Denver in 2016.
As most of you know who have attended these events, there are a lot of distractions which make it hard to fully evaluate your selections; however, this is not the case when you have an entire week with a tour kit. In 2016 when I first heard these I.E.M.s I was very impressed, and at the conclusion of the show I walked away thinking these were best of show. Well after spending countless hours with these I am even more impressed.

To my ears these 2 in-ears are very different and will appeal to differing tastes. To be upfront, I preferred the Tia Forte. My music preferences tilt toward amplified music such as rock, hard rock, fusion, progressive jazz, etc..but on the other hand I enjoy acoustic based music with a strong emphasis on jazz. For me it's much easier to evaluate equipment based on these genres of music because I know intimately how these instruments should sound both amplified and unamplified. Amplified instruments are more of a challenge because there are many more variables such as tube vs. solid state amps, Fender guitars vs. Gibson, vs. Ibanez, etc... effects pedals, microphones, so on and so forth. One of the challenges for the listener is knowing something about the musicians and their recording preferences which invariably effects what we hear in the music. The drum kit is difficult to faithfully reproduce accurately, and is also one that covers a good part of the frequency range when cymbals are included. Cymbals can be a real pain to reproduce, and with the sheer volume of different sounding cymbals it is a challenge for the producer and listener alike. As an example, some drummers prefer e.q. in the studio which unnaturally effects the sound of the drums. As a listener it's hard to judge whether or not the I.E.M. has colored the sound, and if we didn't know the drums were heavily e.q.'d we would blame the I.E.M. for messing up the drum sound. With heavily processed music these concerns are minimized, which makes it very hard to evaluate the sound quality of an I.E.M. because the standards for judging are different as timbre, pitch, and imaging are less important., but slam, and the visceral impact of the presentation is important.

For my evaluation I focused on recordings that are well mastered, featuring musicians/drummers who will fight with engineers that want to impose their idea of what sounds good. The musicians know what they want but are always challenged by engineers who have a formula.

As I unpacked the tour kit the first box to greet my eyes was the U18 Tzar, and so I tried these first. Right off the bat I felt the bass was overly emphasized, so I switched out the apex module which immediately made a big difference. Now the music was presented in a more balanced way with the bass being prominent in the mix, but not terribly intrusive. The Tzar presents the music in a full bodied manner, while still maintaining good pin point imaging on a realistic sound stage. 3 dimensional imaging is present with good depth, while instruments are easily identified from left to right, front to back. Vocals are front and center as they should be, and identifying the words being sung is good. The problem I have with the U18, which is very minor, is the bass which I feel colored the lower mid range ever so slightly. The sound of the kick drum, and toms are rendered very nicely with realistic resonance. The toms are full with dimension, while the kick drum is impactful, and again very full bodied. The problem is that in creating what I would consider a very realistic sound, the decay of the instruments in that region lingers a little too long which slightly effects the clarity in the lower mid range. The same is true for the bass guitar, but here, the fullness adversely effects the texture of the bass, especially as it relates to the reproduction of an acoustic double bass. The fullness of sound extends through the frequency range where guitars sound good, but lack that last bit of definition, and articulation.

On the other hand, the Tia Forte excels in the area of articulation, definition, airiness, resolution, and clarity. In comparison the U18 is only lacking because of the existence of the Forte. Guitars, violins, and horns sound very good. As an example, when a guitarist picks at that fist note the leading edge of the note is very hard to reproduce, but not so with the Forte. When a sax player blows into the horn to create that first note it sounds different than the sequence of notes that follow; here I'm talking about texture. When a jazz drummer rides the cymbals his cymbal strokes are what drives the rhythm. The definition, and articulation of the drum stick as it strikes the cymbal is is both illuminating, and revealing. Hi-hat beats that I thought were quarter notes were in fact eighth notes. The older jazz drummers typically used Zildjian K cymbals which are characterized by a dry sound with fast decay. While listening to an older recording featuring John Coltrane and Milton Freedman it became apparent that the drummer was using a Zildjian A cymbal as his ride cymbal, which was very rare of as it produced a higher pitch with a longer decay; not a desirable trait back then. Moving down the scale, kick drums, and toms didn't quite have the natural resonance of the U18, but bass guitar was more textured with better note articulation. Vocals were very good with lyrics easily discerned. The sound stage is nice and wide, but not as deep as the U18, The imaging with the Forte is sharp, and focused with better spacing, or air between the instruments.

In conclusion, both monitors are excellent and will appeal to a wide variety of listeners. I personally prefer the Forte because I feel like I'm hearing what the engineer probably heard - with every detail highlighted in an open airy environment, but presented in a very cohesive, non clinical way. Dare I say musical. When listening to instruments I feel like I'm right there on stage with the musicians, particularly in terms of tone and pitch. I also think the implementation, and execution of Tia is better in the Forte. However, I think the U18 will appeal to a wider audience with its ability to switch out the apex modules offering big bass for those that like music where the bass is significantly heightened. You know, I have a confession to make, I didn't want to write down my impressions for fear that I would be forced to empty my wallet as I confirmed my thoughts and feelings. Oh well.
Join the club! I demoed, wrote impressions, and lightened my wallet within a two week span! Drat!
 
Nov 15, 2017 at 9:17 PM Post #397 of 813
Nov 15, 2017 at 9:19 PM Post #398 of 813
I much prefer the Tia Fourte and U18 Tzar on my Questyle QP1R, rather than Lotoo Paw Gold Diana. The bass is juicier on the QP1R, which is weird because it's usually the other way around. Maybe these earphones are so revealing that it allows me to hear the benefits of current mode amplification with the QP1R. Believe it or not, the Sony NW-WM1A works well with the Tia Fourte in single ended. I do not have balanced cables for the Sony.
 
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Nov 15, 2017 at 9:31 PM Post #400 of 813
More like 2880... you’re almost there.

I am so hesitant to give up anything I already own. I have ordered some Knowles acoustic dampers to try to fine tune my Shure se846.
 
Nov 15, 2017 at 9:38 PM Post #402 of 813
No no no no no no no, don't do this to me guys, not a week before I put my order in for A18's! My impressions are already in their possession!

I got both testing them out and it’s not an easy decision but I’m more than likely getting the A18. In the back of my mind I’m thinking about the resell value of my customes compared to the universal fit. Resale value has always been on focal points during a purchase. Both are really good good though.
 
Nov 15, 2017 at 9:43 PM Post #403 of 813
image.jpg
I am so hesitant to give up anything I already own. I have ordered some Knowles acoustic dampers to try to fine tune my Shure se846.

Hahaha you doing what I was doing before I said what the heck and just get them. I sold my Se846 for 670 and I didn’t even think I could get that much, I only spent 700 for them brand new. That Lil money possibly going towards a Chord Hugo 2 if I can decide between it and HDV 820. I made close to 7k selling old gear so I’m sitting ok for pretty much anything I want in my budget.
 
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Nov 15, 2017 at 10:05 PM Post #405 of 813
Oh so close to getting the dave... can you sell a little more? Haha, just kiddin'
Hahaha that Dave is an arm AND a pair of legs. Boy oh boy is it up there in sound and cost. I figure get my networth up 2% more before I can get that Dave.
 

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