$500 DAC; Shciit Biforst Uber upgrade or Audio-GD NFB 3

Sep 19, 2014 at 2:48 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 18

jazzwave

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Looking for new DAC for my stereo system, currently running SBT (Source) Coaxial -> Maverick D1(DAC) -> SET300B tube amp -> Spendor speaker.
With <$600 budget , in my radar are Schiit Biforst Uber upgrade or Audio-GD NFB 3.
Resonessence Labs. Concero HD DAC is out of my budget ,except find used one.
 
Music reference: Jazz, R&B, POP
 
 
Please advise, which one more suitable for my current system?
 
~ron~
 
Sep 20, 2014 at 1:13 AM Post #5 of 18
Talking about D/A chip inside the box; Biforst use AKM4399, NFB-3 use eSabre 9018 2M, and DC-1 use AD1955. I believe these 3 D/A chips will deliver different sound.
Due will order online ,I don't have chance to do comparation listening .Can you share "colour" sound of those DAC?
 
~ron~
 
Sep 20, 2014 at 11:02 AM Post #6 of 18
  Talking about D/A chip inside the box; Biforst use AKM4399, NFB-3 use eSabre 9018 2M, and DC-1 use AD1955. I believe these 3 D/A chips will deliver different sound.
Due will order online ,I don't have chance to do comparation listening .Can you share "colour" sound of those DAC?
 
~ron~

Hypothetically, people around here say that the implementation of the chip is more important than the specific chip used. I think talking about how the amps sound would be more informative as I don't think it is really possible to generalize about the "coloration" of specific chips.
 
Sep 21, 2014 at 12:50 AM Post #7 of 18
The reason those chips are all chosen is so that the engineers can use what chip best suits their design philosophy to get the implementation right. That is something I really admire about Schiit's non-usage of ESS or Wolfson chips. Kingwa can do a great ES9018 implementation, that's for sure :)... but the implementation of chip and the analog section are much much more important than the chip in most instances. You could always get an Audio-GD Compass 2 and different DAC modules to test for yourself :).
 
The Bifrost is a beloved DAC with many supporters, and it is upgradable. The Audio-GD options are always safe bets for a neutral, smooth sound that price well above their price points. Emotiva I trust makes a great product, I've never heard anything bad. I really don't think you'll mess up with any of them, once you hit $500, most DAC's all sound about the same, you just start paying more and more for features. There's been quite a few threads comparing DAC's at this price point and above, and most of the time, the cheaper ones come out ahead due to laws of diminishing returns (especially true with DACs, since digital tech for audio is moving much faster than analog).
 
Sep 21, 2014 at 2:42 AM Post #8 of 18
The reason those chips are all chosen is so that the engineers can use what chip best suits their design philosophy to get the implementation right. That is something I really admire about Schiit's non-usage of ESS or Wolfson chips. Kingwa can do a great ES9018 implementation, that's for sure :)... but the implementation of chip and the analog section are much much more important than the chip in most instances. You could always get an Audio-GD Compass 2 and different DAC modules to test for yourself :).


 


The Bifrost is a beloved DAC with many supporters, and it is upgradable. The Audio-GD options are always safe bets for a neutral, smooth sound that price well above their price points. Emotiva I trust makes a great product, I've never heard anything bad. I really don't think you'll mess up with any of them, once you hit $500, most DAC's all sound about the same, you just start paying more and more for features. There's been quite a few threads comparing DAC's at this price point and above, and most of the time, the cheaper ones come out ahead due to laws of diminishing returns (especially true with DACs, since digital tech for audio is moving much faster than analog).

 


jodgey4,
Thanks for the brief. I'm still not decide yet where I have to go...
I don't want to change the DAC every 2-years, due to technology changes. At least this new DAC should service me for 5 years...:)

Some Audiophile said: Keep your source produce netral sound, the color will be added by amp and speaker.
Well, my tube amp (6SN7-300B) and speaker is warm enough actually


Btw, you are using Audio-GD NFB28 right? tell us your impression.

regards
~ron~
 
Sep 21, 2014 at 2:40 PM Post #9 of 18
Yes, I am. I don't have much experience with playing with lots of different gear in my setup, but what I have gathered is this: The amp section separates channels really nicely... which I mention because the coolest thing about the NFB-28 is how well it images. Like, DANG does it image. I've heard lots of nice speaker and headphone setups, but plugging this NFB-28 in preamp mode into a NAD 356BEE's power amp section, I could almost see the instruments on stage. I listened to the John Mayer Trio's live recorded album "Try", and within about 15 seconds I remembered mental pictures of the whole stage and how each player was setup, and then I just closed my eyes and followed Steve Jordan's fills around his double kit with ease. Really cool.
 
As for a sound signature, it's just smooth enough to never sound digital... in the DAC, pre, and headphone section. Some call it warmth, some call it darkness, it's neither of those things, and hard to describe. Pairing with a tube amp would not be overly warm by any means. My Q701's can still sound a bit grating, but they are a super grating and dry can out of most sources. In comparison to the Benchmark DAC1 HDR, I think the DAC1 might have better dynamics in the treble, but it's not as natural sounding over the whole range. The DAC1 is a brilliant DAC IMHO, but not for me.
 
As far as detail levels go/ people's impressions of the ES9018 sound... yes, there's lots of detail and treble extension, but it sounds right, not boosted. I'm not a treblehead, and am actually quite sensitive to a range of it (think HD700 - ouch)... I just think many members here are way too scared of bright treble due to past cans or gear or whatever. The sound is as accurate as you can get without sounding oversharpened or cold or unnatural.You hear what you're meant to hear, and no less. It is a neutral sound with great control in all ranges.
 
All in all, it's a great jack-of-all-trades, and it gives me confidence that an Audio-GD dedicated DAC would be even better as you're not paying for the pre-amp, headphone amp, remote control, and balanced topology. I think it would be safe to bet that the NFB-3 could perform at least as well, if not better (I'd expect a blacker background, which would probably fix the treble microdynamics and open up the sound even more in the mids and bass). As a final note, Audio-GD's latest products are all buzzword friendly and can handle high sampling rates and DSD, so you'd be future proofed for a while.
 
Sep 24, 2014 at 2:23 AM Post #10 of 18
For testing only due to curios to eSabre sound, I ordered the cheapo HifimeDIY DAC/amp for $89.
http://hifimediy.com/DACs/spdif-dac-230V

This DAC has SPDIF input and RCA/3.5 output, the DAC chip inside is low class eSabre 9023 (I believe same DAC with Peachtree DAC ITx).
Expected next week will be arrived, if I enjoy with the sound I will order NFB-3..:)

UPDATE: After short discussion with King-Wa , ordered NFB-3
Plan:
- NFB-3 replace existing DAC for my stereo system in livingroom
- HifimeDIY for iBasso DX50/Headphone

~ron~
 
Sep 29, 2014 at 12:55 AM Post #11 of 18
Audio-GD NFB 3 arived two days ago.
Set-up, pair with Tube amp Single ended triode (300B) , Spendor speaker source Squeezebox through QED coaxial.

Out of the box, this DAC deliver detail and slightly wider soundstage ..... I will back and report to thread after 50 and 100 hours burn in.
The sound geting better and better everyday..and hope after 100 hours this DAC will deliver "her true sound"....it can be good or just so so..:)

~ron~
 
Oct 28, 2014 at 4:40 AM Post #12 of 18
I am on the same boat Ron, I have an old DAC Magic and looking for an upgrade and am very interested in your opinions about the NFB 3.
 
Oct 28, 2014 at 10:59 AM Post #13 of 18
  I am on the same boat Ron, I have an old DAC Magic and looking for an upgrade and am very interested in your opinions about the NFB 3
 
 

 
I have DAC Magic couple years ago, NFB 3 is step up from DAC magic ,.better presentation, wider soundstage
 
But I'm not quite happy NFB 3 sound, I expected to much from this DAC.
 
In my system , compare to my  Maverick TubeMagic D1 ( with upgraded tube and OPAmps), the D1 has darker sound and better separation instrument presentation.
As you know NFB 3 has 2x times price of D1 .
 
I'm waiting NFB 3 100hours burn in period finished, I hope the  sound getting better,
 
 
~ron~
 
Nov 9, 2014 at 2:00 AM Post #14 of 18
Last night I replaced stock power cable of NFB 3 with other cable (DIY for audiophile).
Yess....now sound getting better, good instruments separation, vocal slightly laid back ( love it), well defined bass...but I'm not really happy with the treble.
Expected this treble will getting better after 100 hours burn in.

Recommended DAC for under $500..
 
Nov 9, 2014 at 3:02 AM Post #15 of 18
  Yes, I am. I don't have much experience with playing with lots of different gear in my setup, but what I have gathered is this: The amp section separates channels really nicely... which I mention because the coolest thing about the NFB-28 is how well it images. Like, DANG does it image. I've heard lots of nice speaker and headphone setups, but plugging this NFB-28 in preamp mode into a NAD 356BEE's power amp section, I could almost see the instruments on stage. I listened to the John Mayer Trio's live recorded album "Try", and within about 15 seconds I remembered mental pictures of the whole stage and how each player was setup, and then I just closed my eyes and followed Steve Jordan's fills around his double kit with ease. Really cool.
 
As for a sound signature, it's just smooth enough to never sound digital... in the DAC, pre, and headphone section. Some call it warmth, some call it darkness, it's neither of those things, and hard to describe. Pairing with a tube amp would not be overly warm by any means. My Q701's can still sound a bit grating, but they are a super grating and dry can out of most sources. In comparison to the Benchmark DAC1 HDR, I think the DAC1 might have better dynamics in the treble, but it's not as natural sounding over the whole range. The DAC1 is a brilliant DAC IMHO, but not for me.
 
As far as detail levels go/ people's impressions of the ES9018 sound... yes, there's lots of detail and treble extension, but it sounds right, not boosted. I'm not a treblehead, and am actually quite sensitive to a range of it (think HD700 - ouch)... I just think many members here are way too scared of bright treble due to past cans or gear or whatever. The sound is as accurate as you can get without sounding oversharpened or cold or unnatural.You hear what you're meant to hear, and no less. It is a neutral sound with great control in all ranges.
 
All in all, it's a great jack-of-all-trades, and it gives me confidence that an Audio-GD dedicated DAC would be even better as you're not paying for the pre-amp, headphone amp, remote control, and balanced topology. I think it would be safe to bet that the NFB-3 could perform at least as well, if not better (I'd expect a blacker background, which would probably fix the treble microdynamics and open up the sound even more in the mids and bass). As a final note, Audio-GD's latest products are all buzzword friendly and can handle high sampling rates and DSD, so you'd be future proofed for a while.

I agree I have the NFB10ES2 which is the "slighty less powerful" verison of the NFB 28, implimentation on the two units is simmilar minus the slightyly better and beefier power in the NFB 28 [which ofc just replaced the NFB10ES series all together :/ and it costs like the same now *sigh*]
 
either way, yea the balanced out of Kingwa's ESS 9018 implimented Dacs and Balanced Amp/Dac solutions is... well it's beyound words! I mean it's REALLY good and REALLY COOL, the left an right seperation is INSANE, [in a good way] everything sounds super right an very real!
 
I'm using an HE 4 my self with it! Seriously an End Game Set up for me. I might upgrade it I had like 3 grand to spare or something  
 

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