[BIG POPPA]

We did have another secret meet. Word of the day was tubes. Great tube gear. Then the phase reversal rigs piping up with river and Sonarworks. @muziqboi's rig was just amazing with everything tweeked to the nines. The Synergistic Research Graphene power cable just so smooth, just a few 1st impressions.

 

[johnjen]

I was listening to MusiqBoys rig and cued up "Hotel California" from the "Hell Freezes Over" album by The Eagles.
it starts out with an acoustic guitar that was simply lovely.
Then at about 32 seconds the bass goes THUMP, whereupon I exclaimed "Holy schidt", and spun around to check the SSBB settings…

Yea, they were 'pushed' by quite a bit.
It just goes to show how much headroom his system has! :atsmile:

VERY IMPRESSIVE indeed.

Oh yeah he had all 3 of the tweaks fully implemented and was running on all 12 cylinders… :atsmile:


JJ

 

[BIG POPPA]

Yeah there was a "Jesus" moment with that album.....

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

I'm really glad Muziqboy made the mini meet, it's great to hear fantastic gear in much quieter settings!! Speaking of great gear, there happens to be a Theta Gen V in the classifieds for less than a new Gumby.. Eric's Theta is one of two super modified units but if one acquired the one in the classifieds and made a clone with exact mods.. well now you've made Twinsies (technically triplets).

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

After having the phase shift xlr cable for over a month from Bob, I think there was no better way to try the mod for the first time than having one of the original people who discovered it right there. After installing the phase shift inverter plugin on foobar and shifting the right channel I plug in my he560 with the reverse cable and hear some incredible (audiophile sized) gains in clarity all across the board and it wasn't a minor change (one can a/b with only a few seconds gap to test the sound). JJ can attest me playing a song I'm quite familiar with (Tchaikovsky 1812 - Telarc) and seeing my jaw drop when the bass kicked.

Bass slam, instrument attack/decay, soundstage and imaging also improves. This mod benefits the power supply and any tubes in the chain, I'm sure johnjen and atomicbob can better explain or perhaps a link to a thread that's covered the technical details but this is one of those moments of discovering a hidden feature of an electronic you've had for years. Or like finding hidden audio treasure that unlocks audio bliss hiding in your gear. Sounds like voodoo yes but properly explained it's quite brilliant.

And now back to listening to some classical music. The bass slam is melting my face!!! This is crazy, seriously how is this mod a hidden secret??

 

[johnjen]

"The bass slam is melting my face!!!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahaha

I gotta remember that one… :thumb

When my fellow audiophool and I first stumbled upon this tweak it completely blew us (and anyone else who cared to listen) away.

I had to wait until just recently to replicate that tweak to know how much of an effect it would have with headphones.

The Cookbook thread over in the DIY section has a more detailed explanation, and how to write up about all 3 of the tweaks, of which this Phase Reversal Tweak (PRT) is an integral part.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/210
slide on down to post # 218

And for those who have vinyl based speaker systems just wait till you try this one.
Your head will snap, your jaw will drop, your grin will spread from ear to ear (just like Soundsgoodtome's did) :atsmile:

All you have to do is reverse the 2 right channel wires on you phono cart, AND the right speaker wires at your amp.

And sit back and be amazed. :atsmile:

JJ

 

[gefski]

All you have to do is reverse the 2 right channel wires on you phono cart, AND the right speaker wires at your amp.

And sit back and be amazed. :atsmile:

JJ

OK, JJ, I took a few minutes to read and re-read your PRT post. The cartridge/speaker example was a real help. So let me back up, using that, and you can walk me through this.

Hypothetical: if I, with my speaker system, put the speakers right next to each other, reverse one out of phase, then play a single tone (which would show as a sine wave on a scope) I should achieve a nearly perfect null and hear almost no sound, correct? This assumes "good" quality speakers that are very close to identical, and no room boundary closer to one than the other.

But if I reverse phono cartridge on one side, and speaker wires on the same side at the other end, I am back to correct phase, and hear sound.

In above, we're assuming nothing in between (phono stage, preamp, power amp) messes with phase.

So, with a music signal, the PRT "helps" the electronics between the cartridge and speakers do their work, reducing power supply sag, crosstalk, and other issues? And there are no undesirable side effects since no devices, connectors, wire, or anything has changed.

Do I have it? Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[johnjen]

OK, JJ, I took a few minutes to read and re-read your PRT post. The cartridge/speaker example was a real help. So let me back up, using that, and you can walk me through this.

Hypothetical: if I, with my speaker system, put the speakers right next to each other, reverse one out of phase, then play a single tone (which would show as a sine wave on a scope) I should achieve a nearly perfect null and hear almost no sound, correct? This assumes "good" quality speakers that are very close to identical, and no room boundary closer to one than the other.

But if I reverse phono cartridge on one side, and speaker wires on the same side at the other end, I am back to correct phase, and hear sound.

Yes, the double reverse cancel each other out.

In above, we're assuming nothing in between (phono stage, preamp, power amp) messes with phase.

They do mess with phase, as almost all analog circuits do, but usually it is minimal.

So, with a music signal, the PRT "helps" the electronics between the cartridge and speakers do their work, reducing power supply sag, crosstalk, and other issues? And there are no undesirable side effects since no devices, connectors, wire, or anything has changed.

There could be side effects IF, there has been any signal processing inserted anywhere in the analog chain that is phase 'sensitive' or dependent.
This is a rareity but there are some 'compensation boxes' (the bose 901's, Altec EQ 5's, some of the carver signal processing gear etc.) will probably have a problem with dealing with the L&R channels being out of phase to each other.

But other than that, no the only thing different that this tweak introduces is running the 2 channel in opposite polarity to each other.

Do I have it? Thanks in advance for your response.

So yes just reverse the speaker leads at the amp, and reverse the right channel wires at the cartridge, and your done.

Now if you are running a bi-wire or tri-wire set up then ALL speaker leads on ALL the right channel amps need to be reversed.

There is only one caveat, that being a single active sub woofer that is being fed both the R & L line level signal (not a power amp fed signal).
There is a solution to this but it is situationally dependent and complicated…

But if you have 2 subs (active or passive) the right channel can usually be inverted quite easy, since active subs have a phase switch and the speaker fed signal to the passive sub can be reversed at the sub's input.


JJ

 

[gefski]

OK, then moving to computer based head-fi, you are taking one channel out of phase at the computer, and putting it back in phase at the headphone. Gotcha.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

Good stuff! I'll quote it here just so people can peak at the explanation:
 

Spoiler: PhaseReversalTrick (PRT)

Quote:

#2. Phase em, Phil…
There is however one caveat, the PRT does require a balanced connection to the headphones of your choice.
Those headphones must have a 4 wire cable to the Left and Right earpieces, not a 3 wire.
Also, a 4 wire retrofit of the connector is actually fairly easy if needed, for most headphones.

But if you already have a balanced headphone cable, this tweak is a plug-n-play operation, once you have a phase reversal cable at hand, or are willing to rewire your balanced cable.
We prefer to use the 4 pin XLR connectors instead of the dual 3 pin XLR type as it makes for a simpler and less cumbersome setup.

What is entailed is making one channel of your system reverse polarized with respect to the other. It doesn’t matter which channel, although I normally use the right channel (R - Reversed) just to keep it straight in my head.

So, to activate PRT, in DSP, reverse polarize the right channel and then when the right driver in your headphones is also reversed at either, the end of the main cable, or by adding a Polarity Reversal cable, or by swapping the wires right at the driver, we hear our music in proper polarity.
However all of the analog electronics have the left and right channel polarity out of phase with respect to each other.
What this does is tend to equalize the load on the power supplies. Which in turn means they are ‘stressed’ less so there is less voltage sag during instantaneous transient demand for power.

And when running tubes, with both the left and right channels running in same dual triode or pentode, the common signals between the 2 channels tend to cancel their effect upon each other.
In effect it tends to reduce crosstalk between the 2 channels, and balance out the operation of the tube.

PRT has the effect of reducing the 2 signals ability to ‘contaminate’ each other, which in turn means less smearing and tends to lower tLFF (the Listener Fatigue Factor) among other unwanted factors.
Some of those other sonic effects are increased definition, tonality, and just about all of the terms I have mentioned during this entire ‘Better’ series of posts.
But perhaps it’s largest impact is on the amount of bass the total system can deliver, which usually minimizes the need for adding any more bass.
And sometimes, if this tweak is added last, much of the previously added bass will probably need to be reduced.
So if you’re a bass freq your REALLY gunna love this tweak in particular, but the sum total will probably drop your jaw onto your desk.
So have some bandages handy

 

 

When my fellow audiophool and I first stumbled upon this tweak it completely blew us (and anyone else who cared to listen) away.
I had to wait until just recently to replicate that tweak to know how much of an effect it would have with headphones.

And for those who have speaker based systems just wait till you try this one. Your head will snap, your jaw will drop, your grin will spread from ear to ear (just like Soundsgoodtome's did)

And sit back and be amazed.

JJ

 

[johnjen]

OK, then moving to computer based head-fi, you are taking one channel out of phase at the computer, and putting it back in phase at the headphone. Gotcha.

Yeppers!

JJ

 

[Barra]

Ok guys, who got the reverse phase cable and set it up with the three tweaks?
 
I got mine done using my HD700s and the HD800 sonarworks plug-in and the results are impressive. However, I need to dial in the HD700 to make it perfect. Is anyone else using sonarworks with a non-supported HP? Gil, are you using sonarworks with your HD700? 
 
Toggling my SonarWorks on and off with the HD700, the brightness goes away which never bothered me before, but it feels like a veil that covers the detail that turned on uncovers. Its is hard to know at first impression what is doing what, but the bass is hitting hard and the sound stage now feels closer to an HD800 with the veil removed.
 
Anyone getting similar results?

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

Despite people saying that treble air creates a wider soundstage (maybe in IEMs) taking off a hot treble allows you to hear instruments and vocals in a room like projection unlike up close when the treble is hot. Interesting observation on the hd700 with details revealing when the treble was subdued (and bass boosted).

<>
I should add that these two different headphones can in fact behave differently. Where as the HD700 with it's treble could use slight lessening to reveal more details hidden by a right up to your ear treble (similar to the HE560 with the Focus pads, but not with the treble subduing Focus-A); the HD800 could lose details in increasing bass, which also subdues the treble. As I've heard on Muziqboy's rig I talk about below. Not sure if that made sense.
<>

When i heard the hd800 with the sonarworks plugin it sounded extremely fun with ridiculous bass. Only thing was treble details took a big hit with details disappearing (not just turned down). I can see why sonarworks has its appeal but in the long run it kills what the hd800 is. A nice middle ground is a phase reversal hd800 without sonarworks but the toggling of subsonic bass boost maybe. Although the option of having the ability to turn the hd800 from resolving and amazing to feet moving fun is a nice feature well worth having sonar works.

 

[johnjen]

If the treble has been reduced to much you can use the sonarworks tilt and bass boost controls to bring it back up to better suit what works for you.

JJ