[vc1187]

This past Saturday (6/18/16), a few head-fiers decided to get together to enjoy some good music, good food (and brews), and good company in Wake Forest, NC.  A good time was had and some good impressions were formed from the equipment that was available.  As a result, this get-together was named Tom's Mini-Meet.
 
Members in attendance were: @TomNC , @Afghan Vet , @j4ys, and myself.
 
While this was not the first time the four of us met, nor was it the first time we had a small get-together, it was the first time that we had enough time, equipment, pictures, and formed enough impressions for it to actually be worthy of the title 'mini-meet'.
 
Below is a list of the equipment that was available to us:
 
Headphones:
Sennheiser HD800 (Stock)
Sennheiser HD800 w/ Bill P. mod and SuperDupont mod
Sennheiser HD650 (Stock)
Sennheiser HD530? (Please correct me @Afghan Vet if this is incorrect)
Fostex TH-900 (Modded)
LCD-2 Fazor w/ Lohb Strap
Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime
64Audio Adel 6 CIEMs
 
Amplifiers:
Eddie Current Zana Deux Super
Eddie Current Zana Deux Classic/Original
Ting Feng 6 Pro
Donald North Audio Stratus
Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold
 
DACs/Transports/Sources
27" iMac Late 2013
Melco N1A digital server
Auralic Vega (x2)
Auralic Aries
Fiio X5ii
Various iPads/iPad minis
Cambridge Audio Azur 540D CD/DVD Player
NAD M51
 
Below are some of the pictures that I took:
 

Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold on the top, NAD M51 on the bottom
 
 

DNA Stratus with GEC U52 Recitfier, AVVT Solid Plate 2A3s, and Westinghouse 6BQ7A Driver tubes
 

Eddie Current Zana Deux Classic/Original with RCA 5691 driver tube
 

Auralic Vega on top of Melco N1A Digital Server with random laundry basket in background
 

Ting Feng 6 Pro side view
 

Ting Feng 6 Pro front view, equipped with GEC 6AS7 (A1834), and Telefunken EF80 driver tubes
 

Another picture of the Ting Feng 6 Pro, this thing was really large!
 

iPad Mini on top of Auralic Aries, followed by Auralic Vega, and Cambridge Audio Azur 540D
 
 

Eddie Current Zana Deux Super with Mullard ECC35 driver tube
 
NOTE: For those that live in NC and would like to join us the next time, please post or PM me.  I find that this is not only a great way to get quality time with equipment you have never heard, but also a great way to make friends with similar interests.
 
Impressions to follow shortly!

 

[TomNC]

It really should be named Vernon's meet. 
 
Thanks for hosting the mini-meet for the 2nd time. Good beer and pizza besides all the amps and phones we have put together. I'll post a few more pictures taken with my phone and some impressions about the gear slightly later.
 
It is amazing that with the mighty Lau as a reference, all the tube amps performed well with each of their characteristics.

 

[Afghan Vet]

I had a fantastic time once again. Thank you so much Vernon for opening your home to us - you are a gracious host! I'll post some impressions tomorrow (for what they are worth). But...I'll post the few pics I took now. 
 
The 'Cockpit' I'm still extremely impressed with your set up - the ability to switch effortlessly and quickly from one rig to another to get a sense of perspective. 
 

 
I really liked these - will certainly be picking up a pair some day. 
 

 
Classic beauty - looks fantastic and sounds fantastic (IMO). 
 

 
Pure Art! Aesthetically and acoustically. 
 

 

 
I LOVE the attention to detail. 
 

 
I'm one who loves the aesthetic of the Cavali amps.....I might be in the minority. But I think few would argue about it's sound. 
 

 

 
I'm glad I got the Aries playing on the first try!
 

 
Amazing set up Tom......I hope that you will reach the End State soon. I really enjoyed this combo. 
 

 

 

 
Otis, "should I try these Fostex on or should I just bite them?"
 

 
I think I'll go back over where the HD800's are  
 

 
Jay checking out the X5ii. 
 

 
Jay and the 800's.
 

 
Vernon imparting wisdom.
 

 
"You have to listen to this, ooooh you have to listen to this....."
 

 
Tom evaluating the Liquid Gold.......intently. 
 

 
To me, this sums it up....what it is all about - active / critical listening. 
 

 

[Afghan Vet]

When you all get a chance - check out that Ben Harper, 'Fight For Your Mind' album that I had on that thumb drive - listened to that yesterday on the way to the airport. 
 
And......Not to stray to far 'off topic', check out this build log that I saw yesterday on my car audio forum when you get a chance. This is how extreme these guys can go. 
 
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/116978-2008-bmw-m3-carbon-alloy-build.html

 

[vc1187]

  It really should be named Vernon's meet. 

Well Tom, you should give yourself more credit... You initiated the conversation to setup the previous 'micro-meet' and united us as a group of friends.  Along with that, I think 'Tom's Mini-Meet' rolls off the tongue better than the alternative because of the single syllable name 

 
I just realized that I forgot to take any pictures of the members in attendance!  Actually... I also forgot to take pictures of headphones as well (oops).  Hopefully you guys have more pictures of people.  As always, regardless of who attends, Otis always finds a way to make himself the star of the show!  Great pictures, keep em coming!
 
Jason, thank you for sharing the content on your thumb drive with us.  I've had very minimal time with it so far, but I really like Jason's (Jtwrace) compilation of songs.  I'm sure as I continue to sift through the folders, I'll find many more gems.

 

[vc1187]

So I'll start off with a few impressions:
 
Alpha Prime vs. LCD-2 Fazor vs. HD800 Stock:
 
Alpha Prime
 
Pros:
- Well rounded frequency response
- Jack of all trades in terms of music genres
- Fun to listen to
- No obvious flaws
- Great isolation and very little sound leakage
 
Cons:
- Limited Soundstage
- Not natural sounding
- Doesn't scale particularly well
- While comfortable, I'm not sure if this pair just had an issue, but I found adjustment to be a pain.
 
LCD-2 Fazor
 
Pros:
- Nice warm and intimate sound signature
- Great bass slam and extension
- Non-fatiguing sound
- Smooth with a relaxed treble
- Beautiful headphones, especially rosewood
 
Cons:
- Fairly narrow soundstage, though it was a toss-up between this and the Alpha Prime
- Depending on amp, bass had a tendency to sound bloated rather than tight
- Lacks treble sparkle and extension/ A bit too rounded off in the upper registers
- Most uncomfortable pair of headphones I have ever worn
 
HD800 Stock
 
Pros:
- Very transparent
- Neutral with a natural sounding tonality
- Scales extremely well with upstream equipment
- Boundless soundstage
- Great air around instruments and vocals
- Extremely comfortable pair of headphones
 
Cons:
- Tendency to be strident, harsh, peaky and any negative word that describes treble that can be painful
- Its transparency makes it very dependent on upstream equipment for system synergy
- Neutrality can lead to a more analytical/sterile sound rather than a musical sound (Again, it's dependent on upstream gear)
- Though it's very impressive, sometimes the soundstage is not realistic
- Bass slam could be upped a notch
- Paint chips if you even breathe near these
 
 
All impressions were performed with iMac Late 2013 w/either iTunes w/Amarra or Tidal HIFI USB -> NAD M51 DAC -> Amps listed below
 
The interest in comparing these headphones stemmed from the latest addition to my stable, the Cavalli Liquid Gold (LAu).  Its ability to output 9W into 50 ohms had me wondering what the LCD-2 would sound like.  From my prior experience with the LCD-2 (Which I have owned 4 times now, with pretty much every revision except for the fazor), it sounds the best with amps that can provide at least 1W into 50 ohms, but it's not guaranteed to sound its best.
I began this listening session with the LCD-2 Fazor paired with the LAu.  Having always preferred other cans to the LCD-2, I was pleasantly surprised by the sheer control the LAu had over the LCD-2.  Perhaps it was the tube pairing, but I found the Stratus to have a slightly muddy bass presentation with the LCD-2 in comparison to the LAu.  The LAu presented the LCD-2 with a larger soundstage than I remember from all of my previous times hearing these cans, and with a bass tightness that was top notch.  Listening to instrumental/contemporary jazz group Acoustic Alchemy, particularly their album The Very Best of Acoustic Alchemy - Acoustic Alchemy, the LCD-2 was able to pull off a very convincingly realistic sounding presentation.  Tracks 1 (Mr. Chow) and 4 (Jamaica Heartbeat) from this album were exceptionally detailed and the warm, bassy nature of the headphones worked really well.  While the LCD-2 wasn't particularly bad with any genres, its overall narrow soundstage did affect the immersion factor of some.  With heavily female vocal oriented music, like tracks from album Come Away With Me - Norah Jones, or Piece by Piece - Katie Melua, there was a noticeable lack of air surrounding the vocals and instruments.  It may be unfair to mention this, as my headphone reference is the HD800, and the LCD-2's strength is not its soundstage, but it is worth mentioning for those coming from the HD800 to the LCD-2.
That said, the LCD-2 outperforms the HD800 with music from many mainstream artists like Drake, John Legend, Justin Timberlake, Selena Gomez, Ellie Goulding, etc.
 
Next up was a comparison of the Alpha Primes to the LCD-2 on both the DNA Stratus and LAu.  While I preferred the LCD-2 on the LAu over the Stratus, I found the opposite to be true for the Alpha Prime.  I felt like the Stratus gave the Primes a bit of needed warmth, presence, and overall timbre balance.  The difference was less noticeable than the other pairs of headphones though.  The Primes provided a more 'fun' sound signature rather than super serious audiophile type of signature.  This is not necessarily a bad thing, as I often seek a pair of headphones that is just easy to listen to, is comfortable, and doesn't bother others around me.  Tack onto that low amping needs, and you have a great portable pair of headphones!  While I preferred the LCD-2 probably 70% of the time, the Primes didn't sound bad by any means.  On some tracks, the level of engagement was better than the LCD-2 and the HD800.  Where it failed was the ability to sound natural.  In most cases, the Primes imparted a less realistic coloration and had a tendency to sound tinny on well-recorded music.  For example, a few tracks from the album Currency of Man - Melody Gardot had me realizing that the Primes fell into the category of 'fun headphone' rather than 'serious audiophile'.  The tracks sounded good, but not in a convincingly realistic way like they did on the LCD-2 or the HD800.  I was able to happily jam out to some Daft Punk with the Primes on either amplifier, and that was very satisfying.
 
Finally, the HD800.  I'll be quite frank, it's not a pair of headphones for everyone.  It's actually not an ideal pair of headphones for probably over 60% of people that actually want it to be.  It's very genre dependent and even if you pick genres that match well with the HD800, you're still not out of the woods... it's also very equipment dependent.  If you can get past these shortcomings, really only listen a small selection of genres that aren't typically overwhelmingly fast or complex (think classical, jazz, orchestral, blues, slower or vocal oriented music), and aren't an extreme basshead, then the HD800 may work for you.  When it works for you, you'll know it and begin to wonder if you can ever go back to a pair of headphones that probably has a more realistically limited soundstage as a main.  Being a Jazz type of guy myself, over the years, I've come to appreciate the incredibly expansive soundstage, hyper articulate detailing, and goosebump-inducing sparkle in the upper frequencies.
On either the Stratus or the LAu, the HD800 sounds superb!  To make it short, the Stratus gives a more emotional presence to the music (something that really only tubes can do), while the LAu has slightly better technicalities without ever sounding sterile, sharp, or un-involving.  Listening to songs from the album Morning Dance - Spyro Gyra or Got the Magic - Spyro Gyra, was a sure step more impressive when listening from the HD800 over the other cans.  Female vocalists had a sense of air, emotion, and realism that was also unmatched by either the LCD-2 or Primes.  Could the HD800 have a more satisfying sound?  Technically speaking, yes, it could have a more prominent bass presence to where instead of sounding like just bass it would sound like a more visceral bass... however I find that its bass response is fairly accurate to what the recordings intended.  For Tidal subscribers that enjoy classical music, I recommend the playlist Classical Music for Focusing under the Playlists -> Focus section.  With the HD800, the enjoyment and impressiveness of this playlist has had me re-listening many times.
 
That's it for now folks, but there are many more impressions to come.

 

[TomNC]

I missed the opportunities to listen to the LCD 2 ( it was out of my sight!). Is that the rev. 2 that I have read many good things said about them? Though I owned the LCD3c for five months, I have never listened to the LCD-2. But from the experience I had using old receivers to drive headphones, the powerful Lau should have advantages reproducing the bass through the LCD 2 or other planar phones.
 
Agree with most of what you said about the Prime. I lost a lot of money on that one due to the company brought the Ethers too fast to the market, only months after the Prime. That practice greatly pushed down the second-hand prices of the Prime. I actually liked the Prime before break-in than afterwards. I heard some impurities (distortion?) especially in the mids, that might contribute to what you described the Prime as a non-Hi-Fi phone. The seal was really good, better than any phones I have owned.
 
I generally like the bass from the HD650 more than from the HD800 though the latter is more tuneful and detailed. With the Dynamat mod, the HD650 bass can get significantly better in both clarity and impact.

 

[vc1187]

Yep, all LCD-2 Fazor are rev.2, however not all rev.2 are Fazored.  LCD-2 Fazor is the latest update that they have available (to my knowledge).  If I could deal with the comfort issues, I would seriously consider the LCD-2 or LCD-3, but each and every time I've owned the LCD-2 and the few times I've had the LCD-3s on my head, the cheek compression was just too strong, and the hotspot would occur at the top of the head, where all of the weight would bear down on it.  It's funny that you mention they were out of your sight, as they were literally on the ground right next to your setup! 
 
I guess being in their box didn't help to notice that they did indeed exist.  Sort of like Jay's Bottlehead Mainline, which existed in the dining room downstairs, but was shamefully incomplete 

 

[TomNC]

Several pictures from my phone before some impressions.
 

 
 
 

 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 

 

[TomNC]

First, I have to say the impressions I got are just very informal as we mostly only (except Vernon’s amps having the same source and M51 DAC) listened to systems rather than swapping one gear while keep the rest of the chain constant.
 
Lau. It is no doubt a powerful amp with authoritative control of the whole spectrum with HD800 stock. The trebles were not harsh or dry. I read that some reviewers thought the Lau had a relaxed, slowish sound. I tended to agree. This is not necessarily a bad thing; some users would actually like it. With some tracks I enjoyed the Lau too. On the other hand, with some genres of music, it might lack energy, speed, and dynamic. In contrast to all the tube amps in the same room, Lau showed some flatness in the presentation, unlike the vividness in dynamics, separation, and imaging of the tube amps. I was not certain whether the imaging was very focused or precise. As to soundstage from the Lau, it was very wide, moderately deep, but not very tall. For the price Vernon paid for this 2^nd-hand unit, the Lau is a great value, especially with planars such as HE6. The sound had certain warmth contributing to the relaxing listening experience.
 
DNA Stratus with AVVT 2a3 tubes. These tubes looked magnificent and sounded great. Compared to what I heard with other tubes during a previous meet, the Stratus with AVVTs presented excellent layering and imaging (every sound in its own place with clear border and unique texture). The soundstage might not be the widest among the amps in the room, but the depth and height were both good. Of course, the smoothness with HD800 stock remained a strength of the Stratus. As compared to the Lau from the same source, I actually preferred the sound from the Stratus to some extent.
 
EC Zana Deux S vs original. I did not manage to listen to the original at this meet though it was in the room. The excellent soundstage was there with both versions. It was round-shaped and it was wonderful. Using my test of the immersive sound stage, I heard sound from below and behind my ears from the ZDs more than other amps in the room. At the last part of the meet, I thought I heard some refinements if the ZDS over the original. The soundstage and imaging seemed better. Vocals were more sensual. I wonder how much of my impressions was shaped by that Mullard driver tube. It might contribute to good timbres (imagining the crispy and soothing colors/textures/atmosphere in the fall) just like the qualities I could hear from my CV2523s as compared to other 6as7gs with my Ting Feng 6 Pro amp. I read that ZD original was more detailed than the S. This may well be true, but somehow it did not occurr to me this difference was that important.
 
Ting Feng 6 Pro. I thought the separation and imaging from the 6P, just like the other tube amps, were better than the Lau. Both ZDs were still somewhat better in presenting that large round-shaped soundstage than the 6P. I was satisfied with the speed of this amp which contributed to the overall dynamic and detailed sound. But this was problematic with the VEGA as a DAC with some tracks--- the trebles could sound dry and harsh. The mods of my HD800 helped significantly but I wish to try a different DAC with more delicate, non-fatiguing trebles.
 
HD800 SD+Bill-P mods vs HD800 cherry-pick stock. Vernon’s stock HD800 had the least 6K peak among four copies of HD800 I have ever listened to, thus ‘cherry-pick’ labeling. Compared to this stock HD800, I felt the SD mod was still a little better to suppress that 6k peak and the tendencies for the HD800 to sound sibilant and strident. And the lighter version of the Bill-P mod added some warmth to the sound making it is more enjoyable listening to vocals through the HD800. Indeed I’ve been using the mod HD800 to listen to songs a lot lately.
 
Overall I felt all the tube amps in the room performed very well as compared to the mighty Lau. This meet has further enhanced my belief that you are more likely to get good sound from a tube than a transistor only amp. Again, this might apply to dynamic driver rather than planar phones. Speaking of limitations, all these amps including the Lau, still lack the visceral bass impact of the Moth 2a3 with RCA monoplates. It remains a question to me whether there is another amp that can do bass as well as the Moth.

 

[vc1187]

Maybe I can get D to let me borrow the Moth for our next meet, if I convince him that he might have a potential buyer 

 

 

[TomNC]

The Moth and Jay's functional Mainline. That would be awesome for the next meet.

 

[Afghan Vet]

I'll hopefully have time for my 'reactions' (not necessarily impressions) tonight / tomorrow, but I would be remiss if I didn't comment on Tom's comment about the Moth. This may be a band-wagon type of statement, but that was my main take away from the Concord meet.......the bass from the Moth was extraordinary. I listened to it for > 30 minutes with my Fostex (something I was familiar with) and with my disc.
 
As I remember it - the Moth didn't 'change' the bass to something that the recording wasn't......didn't make it boomy, fat, bloated (Quality), and it didn't make it overshadow the other frequencies (Quantity).....so, kind of hard to articulate it - just made the bass more 'impactful', more 'present', more 'pleasurable / satisfying' - how does it do that? Some would ask for objective, measured data showing this phenomena (I don't care for those guys - I don't need a fancy chart to show that something sounds different/better). 
 
Every meet (headphone or car) just fills me with regret. That was the fastest 6 hours of my life. When I look back now, I ask, "did I even listen to music/headphones while I was there?"
 
I was thinking this morning that I want to do something at the next mini meet. I want to spend a little time with you guys using maybe 3 pieces of music.....you listen, write down some impressions.....maybe between 2 different headphones......then I'll do the same thing. Not really to see if I get the same thing as you all - this is a subjective type of exercise.....but to help develop a little more in the area of critical listening. It might even be fun....... 

 

[vc1187]

You raise a good point.  As such, aside from my setup, I wasn't planning to post impressions on gear X vs gear Y, rather I was planning on posting impressions based on each individual setup as a whole.
 
I think if we are doing critical listening, limiting the selection of music to a few tracks is a good start.
 
I'd also be interested in doing some of the comparisons we didn't have time for... like the ZD original vs. the ZDS using the same driver tube and upstream gear.  It's hard to draw conclusions from this meet on one individual piece of equipment over another as each piece of equipment was part of a different setup.  Luckily for us, each and every one of the setups sounded phenomenal in their own way, but they did have their differences.  Instead of being able to bluntly state something like amp A had more bass presence than amp B, there are too many variables to be relatively certain that it was purely the amp.  Much of that could be attributed to different sources and transports (i.e. streamers vs. computers).
 
Then comes the fun part - critical listening while tube rolling.  Trust me, by the end of the day, you'll be tired of music... but the reward is that you will have found the tube or a few tubes that really match the signature you're looking for.

 

[Afghan Vet]

So......after the meet, the thought of the Mullard / Philips Miniwatt ECC35 tube was always on my mind.
 
I had intended to buy this tube when I bought the ZDS because of it's 'Holy Grail' status among drive tubes for the ZD. But, with the cost outlay on the amp, etc. and the cost of the tube.....I decided to wait.....and I'm glad I did - kind of cool to 'upgrade' instead of having everything 'perfect' when you first get it. 
 
But...hearing Vernon's Mullard tube in the ZDS, even for a little bit, left me with an impression. Some after some consternation and deliberation....I ordered one from Tube World. 
 
It came in of course while I was away this week, but I pulled it open last night.......then the horror! It was broke!........or so I thought 

 Once I sent a text to Vernon (TG.....tube guru), I was straightened out. The tube looks 'broken' - with the wires seemingly not connected from top to bottom and sticking out in weird directions. Fortunately the new one I just got looks exactly like his. 
 

 

 
 
I put the tube in this morning and did a few minutes of A/B with the RCA Red 5691. I'm glad I bought this tube! I like the RCA - it is very good - but the ECC35 just has the right synergy between the Vega/ZDS/Fostex. From what I can hear, the advantages of this tube in my system include:
 

1. Layering - it feels that there is better separation of instruments, that I can 'hear' the supporting instruments much better - they don't overshadow the main voice or solo instrument, but they are much more present
2. Highs - slightly rolled off highs (at least that is what others have said) - I get the shimmer of a cymbal, etc. but the edginess of the voice and violin (that I get from the RCA tube) is gone  
3. Voice - there is the right amount of warmth given to the voice - just sweetens it a bit - perfect!
4. Lows - I perceive good impact, depth and presence of the bass notes - I played a few tracks from Danny B's disc, and the bass was very satisfying.....not Moth level....but very good!

 

 
 

 

 

 
Thanks again Vernon for letting me roll that tube in during the meet. Which again, is the great advantage of mini-meets like we have had - much easier to evaluate things rather than at big meets....you trust the folks who are there to respect your equipment, etc. The only bad thing......one could end up spending a bunch of money after the mini-meets Thanks again Vernon for being a resource when I pulled that tube out of the packaging...would have been painful to contact them for a return and to find out there is nothing wrong with the tube....I was left wondering how many times that potentially happened....or are the purchasers of ECC35 tubes 'in the know' of how they look