[bellmont]

Hey! I am looking for some over ear headphone recommendations that:

Are easy to drive (I currently own an Ipod Nano 4th generation but I am looking at getting a Shanling M1 and I need the cans to run well off the M1’s).​

Compliment my listening habits: 45% electronic/pop with female vocals, 15%Video Games/Movies, 10% Acoustic-Folk Indie (think Andrew Bird, Iron and Wine, Jose Gonzalez ), 10% Indie Rock with Female Vocals (think Slater Kinney, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Courtney Barnett), 10% Calming/meditation Aids (Tibetan singing bowls, impressionist classical music), 10% Podcasts/Audiobooks.​

Have grip. I have tendency to walk around when I listen to music so I am looking for something with enough grip that it doesn’t shift or come off my head when I am moving – I do not aggressively dance, I just pace around. To reiterate, the cans need to be able to driven off M1’s also because of this walking habit.​

Are comfortable for long sessions.​

Stays within my budget of under 600 dollars per headphone new or ~400 dollars (or under) used.​

----

Other Notes, Important Information:

I am looking at both open and closed. My listening environment doesn’t necessitate closed (it is pretty quiet). Feel free to recommend both an open and a closed headphone.

I currently do not own an Amp or DAC but will consider them in the future, for the time being I will be using the stock audio off my DAP and PC. I own all MP3’s atm, but may get into FLAC later as my habits change.

I enjoy bass but I also listen to a great deal of higher/ female vocal laden music. I am considering the Sony MDR-Z7 (for bass and gaming) and/or Audio-Technica ATH-AD2000X or ATH-AD1000x (for most of my other music listening), though I have not actually tried these out in person. A noticeably good sound stage would be nice, something on the “airy” or “expansive” side of things. Feel free to critique my above choices.

No IEM rec’s please.

Let me know if I can elaborate on anything.

Thanks for your help!

bellmont

 

[Stillhart]

I'd recommend the iSine 20 if you didn't specify no IEM's. But these are kinda weird IEM's so depending on what you don't like, they may actually work for you.

The regular Audeze Sine isn't a bad choice if you can get past the comfort. Some people find them uncomfortable (me!) and some don't.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hey! I am looking for some over ear headphone recommendations that:

Are easy to drive (I currently own an Ipod Nano 4th generation but I am looking at getting a Shanling M1 and I need the cans to run well off the M1’s).​

Compliment my listening habits: 45% electronic/pop with female vocals, 15%Video Games/Movies, 10% Acoustic-Folk Indie (think Andrew Bird, Iron and Wine, Jose Gonzalez ), 10% Indie Rock with Female Vocals (think Slater Kinney, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Courtney Barnett), 10% Calming/meditation Aids (Tibetan singing bowls, impressionist classical music), 10% Podcasts/Audiobooks.​

Have grip. I have tendency to walk around when I listen to music so I am looking for something with enough grip that it doesn’t shift or come off my head when I am moving – I do not aggressively dance, I just pace around. To reiterate, the cans need to be able to driven off M1’s also because of this walking habit.​

Are comfortable for long sessions.​

Stays within my budget of under 600 dollars per headphone new or ~400 dollars (or under) used.​

----

Other Notes, Important Information:

I am looking at both open and closed. My listening environment doesn’t necessitate closed (it is pretty quiet). Feel free to recommend both an open and a closed headphone.

I currently do not own an Amp or DAC but will consider them in the future, for the time being I will be using the stock audio off my DAP and PC. I own all MP3’s atm, but may get into FLAC later as my habits change.

I enjoy bass but I also listen to a great deal of higher/ female vocal laden music. I am considering the Sony MDR-Z7 (for bass and gaming) and/or Audio-Technica ATH-AD2000X or ATH-AD1000x (for most of my other music listening), though I have not actually tried these out in person. A noticeably good sound stage would be nice, something on the “airy” or “expansive” side of things. Feel free to critique my above choices.

No IEM rec’s please.

Let me know if I can elaborate on anything.

Focal Spirit Classic is $170 from Amazon right now.

 

[serman005]

You should look into the HiFiMAN HE400S, which is easy to drive and has terrific overall sound quality. Really good, though somewhat rolled off on the low end. Midrange is spectacular, which could be good for your musical interests. You might read about it and see what you think. It's possible it could work for you.

 

[ryanjsoo]

If soundstage is a big factor, definitely look at the Sennheiser HD700, they retailed for $1K USD but can now be found for closer to $300. They're 150ohms but are still pretty easy to drive so long as you don't like to listen too loud. They are a brighter set with a very resolving high-end.They're also among the most comfortable headphones I've worn, 85% of a HD800 for 1/5th the price. Also, I used to own the Z7, I personally wouldn't recommend it for those genres, it's a bit too laid-back up top.

 

[Malfunkt]

The MDR-Z7 are a no go unless you are truly powering them with a decent amp. They were a bit anemic out of an iPhone 6, which is rated similarly to you iPod and M1.

Hard to drive doesn't necessarily mean better, and while the Z7 is a good phone, I think there are a number of headphones that can scratch that closed headphone itch.

Personally, for electronic music,, I love the Denon AH-D2000. A lot of headphone have bass, but the Denons not only hits low, it keeps this great texture. The whole headphone has this liquid, super clear sound. It is also ridiculously easy to drive. An older headphone, but it is still be built in-spirit and in similar fashion through Fostex TH-X00, Fostex TH-600, and E-Mu Teak. Definitely check out the TH-X00 and its variants.

If you luck out, you might find an AH-D2000 / 5000 in good condition (5000 is identical outside of having wooden cups). Also, the Denon AH-D600 if found at good prices is good as well, though a bit less accurate, has a very agreeable signature. Both Ah-D600 and D2000 are very comfy, but best for medium to large head shapes.

For gaming, I'll second @ryanjsoo with the recommendation for the HD700. It is also great for electronic, but not EDM, dubstep, or really any club music. It is more for ambient, introspective IDM-ish beats, psy-trance or very technical beats. It can still hit low, it just doesn't have the texture and level of bass that the Denon brings. And it isn't like the Denons are bass cannons, they just have a nice balance for all electronic music.

The HD700 is better for vocals but also fine acoustic instrumentation. They are spectacular for gaming however, creating lifelike atmospheres, completely enveloping you in the game environment. Same with movies. If you are using Windows 10, get Dolby Atmos for headphones and you are set. The HD700 is 150ohm, and does best with a basic amp. It can be driven by smaller sources though, just not at the best of its authority. I have no worries driving it from an iphone. Lastly, the HD700 is perhaps one of the comfiest headphones ever designed.

If you want something in the middle of the above, the HD650, and HE400S recommendations are good ones. Both are excellent choices. The HD650 won't go as low as the D2000, and doesn't have the same sparkle up top, but it is great or all genres, vocals, and is a legend.

 

[Stillhart]

I'll caution against the HD700. I purchased it for a song on Black Friday a while back and wanted to love it. It was dirt cheap and had a lot of great things about it... but it has a piercing treble spike that I found too uncomfortable to live with. Many people report hearing the same thing, though many are satisfied with it too. You may or may not have an issue with it, and if you don't it's a great headphone. If you do tho... you'll be selling it pretty quickly.

HD650 is a terrible gaming headphone. Small soundstage and rolled treble. Also it really needs to be amped well to sound its best.

 

[bellmont]

I'd recommend the iSine 20 if you didn't specify no IEM's. But these are kinda weird IEM's so depending on what you don't like, they may actually work for you.

The regular Audeze Sine isn't a bad choice if you can get past the comfort. Some people find them uncomfortable (me!) and some don't.

Thanks for the response @Stillhart ! The iSine 20's do seem interesting. I have few questions and thoughts:

Have you tried them out? How hard is it to properly position in the ear? I read somewhere that they need their requisite cipher/dac or you need a multi-band EQ to emulate the mids the cipher helps to produce.

As a brand Audeze doesn't seem like good value, as they come off as being heavily geared towards people who interested in expensive tech gadgets for the prestige of owning expensive tech. That’s fine and dandy, but at the end of the day how much of their gear is paying for PR and branding vs. having transmitted value to the consumer? I am just starting out so this is just my opinion based off my interactions with them thus far, researching el-8’s online. I do understand they do good (high end) flagship regular headphones and this is not what I am looking for atm.

Originally I said no to IEMs because I don’t want that traditional IEM muffled-music-straight-to-the-head feeling, though I recognize their convenience and portability. Also, since I am new to the scene I wonder do IEM’s depreciate more/faster than regular headphones? If I ever wanted to mix it up in the future (though I am not sure why I would as everything I have read about iSine 20’s seems great) it would be cool to know if I could in fact sell them at relatively same price as a headphone with the same wear/original msrp.

What are your thoughts?

The regular Sines do look like my jam, thanks for bringing them to my attention!

Focal Spirit Classic is $170 from Amazon right now.

Thanks for your response @ProtegeManiac. Any chance you could comment on how they compare to OPPO PM-3 in terms of comfort and sound? They seem similar in design and intended use. In any case, the Classics seem right up my alley.

@serman005 Thanks for your response. Yeah, I was looking at those 400s and they are getting closer to the X2's in price...and people have a tendency to really like those x2's as well. Between the two, I couldn't decide which were better for me so I decided to just turn my sights elsewhere to something clearly defined by 'crazy good' highs like the higher end of the Audio-Technica ATH-AD series. Would you recommend modding the 400s with a more closed ear cup? In your experience is there a great deal movement in the headband, like does it click solidly in place on the side/band section or is there more play?

@ryanjsoo Thanks for your response. I am glad you like the 700's comfort, from what I have seen folks who have 600's have tendency to think your getting the short end of the stick re: compared value, but I recognize 700's are easier to drive. Do your ears ever get sweaty with the stock ear cups on 700's? Have you tried the 400s? -I am wondering how the 700s compare weight and comfort wise to the them. Yeah, I have heard the z7's are a mixed-to-crappy bag (depending on how you mod them) for highs...I appreciate you considering my music choices. Thanks again.

 

[bellmont]

Personally, for electronic music,, I love the Denon AH-D2000.

For gaming, I'll second @ryanjsoo with the recommendation for the HD700. It is also great for electronic, but not EDM, dubstep, or really any club music. It is more for ambient, introspective IDM-ish beats, psy-trance or very technical beats. It can still hit low, it just doesn't have the texture and level of bass that the Denon brings. And it isn't like the Denons are bass cannons, they just have a nice balance for all electronic music.

The HD700 is better for vocals but also fine acoustic instrumentation. They are spectacular for gaming however, creating lifelike atmospheres, completely enveloping you in the game environment. Same with movies. If you are using Windows 10, get Dolby Atmos for headphones and you are set. The HD700 is 150ohm, and does best with a basic amp. It can be driven by smaller sources though, just not at the best of its authority. I have no worries driving it from an iphone. Lastly, the HD700 is perhaps one of the comfiest headphones ever designed.

If you want something in the middle of the above, the HD650, and HE400S recommendations are good ones. Both are excellent choices. The HD650 won't go as low as the D2000, and doesn't have the same sparkle up top, but it is great or all genres, vocals, and is a legend.

@Malfunkt Thanks for your response. This kind of ambient "introspective" electronic music is mostly what I listen to, think of that music which shows up on the Mrsuicidesheep youtube channel, some more of the spacey Above and Beyond, Air, Zero 7 and Chemical Brothers. I haven't researched Denon yet, I'll take a look. Thanks for bringing them to my attention.

@Stillhart That's a complaint (re: treble) I have heard about with the HD 700's. @Malfunkt and @ryanjsoo Have you encountered this?

 

[Stillhart]

Thanks for the response @Stillhart ! The iSine 20's do seem interesting. I have few questions and thoughts:

Have you tried them out? How hard is it to properly position in the ear? I read somewhere that they need their requisite cipher/dac or you need a multi-band EQ to emulate the mids the cipher helps to produce.

As a brand Audeze doesn't seem like good value, as they come off as being heavily geared towards people who interested in expensive tech gadgets for the prestige of owning expensive tech. That’s fine and dandy, but at the end of the day how much of their gear is paying for PR and branding vs. having transmitted value to the consumer? I am just starting out so this is just my opinion based off my interactions with them thus far, researching el-8’s online. I do understand they do good (high end) flagship regular headphones and this is not what I am looking for atm.

Originally I said no to IEMs because I don’t want that traditional IEM muffled-music-straight-to-the-head feeling, though I recognize their convenience and portability. Also, since I am new to the scene I wonder do IEM’s depreciate more/faster than regular headphones? If I ever wanted to mix it up in the future (though I am not sure why I would as everything I have read about iSine 20’s seems great) it would be cool to know if I could in fact sell them at relatively same price as a headphone with the same wear/original msrp.

What are your thoughts?

The regular Sines do look like my jam, thanks for bringing them to my attention!

So yes, I've tried them a few times (as well as the yet-to-be-released iLCD version). I'm one of those folks that find universal IEM's nearly impossible to to get a good fit. There are a few I like a lot but most are just a pain in the butt and so I don't tend to use universals. With that in mind, I found the iSines easy enough to use as they have an additional clip thing that helps keep them in place.

I haven't done enough testing to tell if the non-iPhone version is notably worse (or needs EQ or whatever) but I listened out of my AK player and it sounded pretty good.

I'm kind of with you on Audeze's marketing direction. Starting with the EL-8, they started focusing more on form over function (a massive departure from the LCD line which is all function, no form). On top of that, they're pushing for the Apple crowd hard, which is a major turnoff for me. BUT, they do have good sounding products at the end of the day and their newer stuff is getting back towards a nice balance of form and function. I think the iSines fall into this category.

My biggest issue with the iSine, personally, is that I don't know when I'd use them personally. They're portable and sound great, but they're open, which limits their portable use. And if I'm at home using an open, I have plenty of options because I don't need it to be portable. It seems like you have a good use case for it though.

Universal IEM's hold their value as well as any headphone, especially if they have a removable cable. If you buy used, you will be in good shape to recoup most of your money. If you buy new, as with anything, expect some depreciation.

Hope this helps.

 

[ryanjsoo]

@ryanjsoo Thanks for your response. I am glad you like the 700's comfort, from what I have seen folks who have 600's have tendency to think your getting the short end of the stick re: compared value, but I recognize 700's are easier to drive. Do your ears ever get sweaty with the stock ear cups on 700's? Have you tried the 400s? -I am wondering how the 700s compare weight and comfort wise to the them. Yeah, I have heard the z7's are a mixed-to-crappy bag (depending on how you mod them) for highs...I appreciate you considering my music choices. Thanks again.[/QUOTE]

I did try the HE-400's and did like them quite a lot. I don't think they're on the same level as the HD700's overall, their soundstage isn't quite as expansive nor are they quite as detailed though they are slightly more tonally balanced overall. My main issue with the HE-400s was comfort and weight, they are considerably heavier than the HD700 and the headband is a bit awkward. The HD700 is pretty open, the silver parts are actually mesh so they breathe pretty well and the microfiber ear pads don't get as hot as leather ones.

Honestly, regarding the Z7, I wouldn't rely on mods to fix anything, there's only so much you can do and everyone has varying ideas and impressions of mods so the results are often unreliable. They aren't a bad headphones, but for what you want, they're definitely not the greatest buy. I would second the Denon and Fostex headphones, they are quite exemplary in terms of bass performance and have really nice soundstages for closed headphones though the HD700 is quite expansive even for an open-back so they aren't directly comparable. I didn't find the HD700 treble to be murderous at all, nor did any of my more treble sensitive friends but again, that depends on what you're coming from. I would guess that iem users won't have an issue since earphones tend to be a little more forward and fatiguing due to their form factor, by comparison, the HD700 isn't bad at all.

 

[Malfunkt]

When I first got the HD700, they did give me a bit fatigue, but only at times. It's hard to explain, but I adjusted to their signature. At the same time, I knew I immediately liked them. They have a forward, in your face yet spacious sound signature. It comes across as vivid, and can sound like listening to some floor standing speakers in a room space. Sennheiser understands how to model sound, but it doesn't mean the signature will agree with everyone.

Although less vivid, the toned down neutralish signature of the HD650 can be preferred. I like the HD700 but I also have acquired a vintage Sennheiser HD250, a closed headphone which beats both in terms of natural tone. It's a hard headphone to come across in good shape and takes serious power to drive so wouldn't recommend. The D2000, while not as natural as the hd250 has a real spacious sound, clarity, and an excellent low-end. It's highs can be a bit sharp, so if you need to turn up the D2000 I'd recommend equing the treble down. The D2000 can be enjoyed at lower volumes you'll still get the sensation of bass. With the HD650 and HD250 you end up turning up the volume a bit higher to get similar impact.

Even though almost half of your totally cost, I would get the closed back D2000 or it's newer Fostex variant first. It is such a satisfying headphone and really works well for almost all genres. I really think you'll dig them for electronic music. After a bit, you could research getting a more open headphone to contrast it, and if you luck out, can get the HD700 on top of this. Or start with the HD700s and get a closed back later. You may even want a more portable closed back to enjoy your music on the go. Or IEMs. So lots of choices which is why this forum exists.

 

[serman005]

Yes, I do recommend picking up a set of Focus A pads for the HE400S. They will tighten up the mid-bass and improve extension pretty substantially. I have not had any trouble with the headband. It slides and locks into place no differently than my HD600 and HD650 do. It seems fairly well made and I actually like its lightweight construction. Mine is a year old and still in perfect condition. It is extremely comfortable. The only real weakness is the bass extension, but that can be addressed with the Focus pads. ---)