[flechoide]

Hi, Ive read other posts and I have realized a couple of things, I want however to post to ask especifically.

Im looking for an amp or amp + dac for playing flacs (or mp3 for some songs) from PC and for games eventually . I will use mainly speakers (probably B&W 602 I saw from second hand or something similar, I have a q acoustics concept 20 and 40 at the dinning room and I really like the sound, they are driven by a pioneer vsx 831) and to a lesser extend Im looking for a good headphones .

From other posts I see recomendations from a chinese manufacturer audio-gd, other guys who want to use the PC get recomendations for the NFB 11, NFB 15 and the NFB 28.38 , but Im open to other recomends.

About the budget not sure, Im quite flexible and open mind, about 1000$ aprox, I want a good sound an enjoy the music, but I dont want to go too heavy on money .

 

[squee116]

Driving speakers is very different deal from driving headphones. I'm not hip to the AudioGD line, but I was under the impression those were headphone amps. Do they have the juice to drive speakers?

Is desktop footprint a limiting factor here or do you have a lot of space to work with? A larger all-in-one might be the best and cheapest way to go.

 

[flechoide]

Yes maybe what I read was for headphones (my fault) , no, the space is not a limiting factor but I dont understand what a larger all-in-one is .

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Im looking for an amp or amp + dac for playing flacs (or mp3 for some songs) from PC and for games eventually . I will use mainly speakers (probably B&W 602 I saw from second hand or something similar, I have a q acoustics concept 20 and 40 at the dinning room and I really like the sound, they are driven by a pioneer vsx 831) and to a lesser extend Im looking for a good headphones .

From other posts I see recomendations from a chinese manufacturer audio-gd, other guys who want to use the PC get recomendations for the NFB 11, NFB 15 and the NFB 28.38 , but Im open to other recomends.

Amplifier design for headphones and speakers are very different. Headphones require less power but amps need to work well with impedance ranging from 24ohms to 600ohms. Speaker amps only have to contend with 4ohm to 16ohm, and typically 8ohm nominal with 4ohm swings.

Those products you listed are headphone amplifiers. Even if they can go down to the B&W's 8ohms and handle their 4ohm swings, you'd still have a problem with the cables since they don't have speaker cable binding posts. And chances are you can't sit too far since they won't produce a lot of power nor will work well cranked up. Maybe they won't go up in smoke quickly, but since many headphone amps make use of the relatively lower power requirement by running in Class A - which all AudioGD headphones are - you're a lot closer to the brink on those amplifiers if you use them on speakers. Most speaker gear also suck at driving many headphones as their headphone outputs have a high impedance and typically lower power at the impedance of a headphone (ie, power doesn't decrease in a linear fashion as the impedance goes up).

That said, those AudioGDs have preamp and DAC line outputs, so they can hook up to either a speaker power amp or an integrated amp/receiver that will drive the speakers. The problem is whether you have enough space on your desk for the VSX-831.

AudioGD used to make amps with circuits designed to drive speakers and headphones, with lower low gain setting for the latter, but they're discontinued. The only one that's really good for both right now is the Schiit Ragnarok, but that's $1500. There's the Cayin CS-55a, but that's even bigger and a heck of a lot heavier thanks to three transformers and a heck of a lot of tubes.

If you'll primarily listen with speakers anyway you might as well sacrifice a bit on the headphone amp capability and limit your headphone choices to high impedance headphones like the HD650, DT880, and DT1770 or T70 (note that the Beyers have 32ohm versions so mind what you click and put in your shopping cart). Something like the NAD D3020 will do the trick - it's a really good speaker amp with a fairly decent (though still high output impedance) headphone amplifier (although the detrimental effects are less severe on high impedance headphones).

Alternately you can get the AudioGD NFB-11 for under $400 and find a power amp for the rest of your cash. It can properly drive virtually any headphone out there barring electrostats, and any dedicated power amp will be able to drive the B&Ws. If space is a premium then look for a Class D stereo amp made from a kit.

 

[flechoide]

Thanks a lot Protegemaniac !

That changes completely what I was planning, makes sense, so I should go for a dedicated amp for speakers and get something like the NAD 3020 you mentioned.

Those amps seems very good (the should for the price) but are at some extend too high for my budget , Im speaking about Ragnarok and Cayin CS-55a .

The vsx831 is at another room, so I want another amp (and I want that amp to be at least equal or better quality than the VSX831), which does not need to be capable of hdmi and stuff like that I want that amp just for sound.

Now I have another question, would I get some better sound performance going after another non so friendly amp for speakers if I forget about the headphones and focus just on speakers as you say at the end of your post ?

 

[PurpleAngel]

Hi, Ive read other posts and I have realized a couple of things, I want however to post to ask especifically.

Im looking for an amp or amp + dac for playing flacs (or mp3 for some songs) from PC and for games eventually . I will use mainly speakers (probably B&W 602 I saw from second hand or something similar, I have a q acoustics concept 20 and 40 at the dinning room and I really like the sound, they are driven by a pioneer vsx 831) and to a lesser extend Im looking for a good headphones .
From other posts I see recomendations from a chinese manufacturer audio-gd, other guys who want to use the PC get recomendations for the NFB 11, NFB 15 and the NFB 28.38 , but Im open to other recomends.
About the budget not sure, Im quite flexible and open mind, about 1000$ aprox, I want a good sound an enjoy the music, but I dont want to go too heavy on money .

Currently Massdrop has the Darkvoice 336SE tube headphone amplifier, for $199.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dark-voice-366se
Maybe get a basic stereo speaker amplifier, to drive the B&W 602.
Run a connect from the 336SE (RCA) line-output into the speaker amplifier.
So PC > 336SE > Speaker amp > B&W 602.
You might need or want to get a DAC to go between the PC and the 336SE.

I own the Audio-GD NFB-15 and really like it.
The Audio-GD NFB-11.28 is both a DAC and headphone amplifer and it's (RCA) line-output could be connected to a stereo speaker amplifier.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thanks a lot Protegemaniac !

That changes completely what I was planning, makes sense, so I should go for a dedicated amp for speakers and get something like the NAD 3020 you mentioned.

Those amps seems very good (the should for the price) but are at some extend too high for my budget , Im speaking about Ragnarok and Cayin CS-55a .

The vsx831 is at another room, so I want another amp (and I want that amp to be at least equal or better quality than the VSX831), which does not need to be capable of hdmi and stuff like that I want that amp just for sound.

Now I have another question, would I get some better sound performance going after another non so friendly amp for speakers if I forget about the headphones and focus just on speakers as you say at the end of your post ?

I'm not sure what you mean by "going after another non-so friendly amps for speakers" and then using it for speakers and not for headphones. I mean that's like "how good will the performance be on speakers if I just go cheap on the speaker amp, no headphones," to which the answer will be, "well, commensurately less vs something like the D3020." Do you mean you want to spend less on the speaker amp? You don't need to sacrifice performance if you're patient and have enough space - look around for used gear for local pick up and get an old NAD or Marantz and just get a DAC if you need it for your source. These have a Tape/Rec Out (ie just passes the signal from the input to the loop output) so you can add a headphone amp there if you decide to use one later on.

 

[flechoide]

I didnt want too say going cheap or spend less, I missread yur previous post.

So bassically the ideal solution for what I understand from both Protegemaniac and PurpleAngel, providing I have enough space (and I have enough space) is to get separate items, first a good amp for speakers, a separate DAC for filling the gap beetween PC and AMP, and finally a dedicated amp for headphones for use when I need them .

So far I understand that the best solution is to segmentate everything with dedicated devices (again with space enough) .

So, I should go for a good amp.

 

[flechoide]

I think I canget a marantz PM7000 or a Denon Pma-1500 for about 300 € aproximately.

 

[Guidostrunk]

Some people will knock this amp because of its price.
https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/100
Here's a review on it.


I use this amp now , with a Scott Nixon tube dac, and it supersedes everything I've previously owned which cost a lot more.

As far as dacs. The Modi multibit (http://schiit.com/products/modi-2)
gets some rave reviews on here, and supposedly it's not much different than the Bimby that I used to own.

So for less than $500, you're good to go. One thing I've learned in this hobby is you don't have to spend a fortune for great sound.

Cheers

 

[flechoide]

But thats for for heads, not for speakers

 

[dolemite2]

Second the Emotiva A-100. It is a speaker amp, with a headphone out on the front. Great quality for the price.

You would just need a dac. add a lil ego https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/dacs/little-ego

And your done for 300 bucks

 

[PurpleAngel]

I think I canget a marantz PM7000 or a Denon Pma-1500 for about 300 € aproximately.

Both of those Speaker amps come with a headphone jack, headphones in the 250-Ohm 300-Ohm range should work well plugged into those.
So really only need to get a DAC to go with them.

 

[Guidostrunk]

It's a speaker amp, with a headphone out in the front. You must not have watched the review. Lol

But thats for for heads, not for speakers

 

[flechoide]

I did now , how good is emotiva compared to Marantz pm7000 in terms of quality?

Actually i got a used B&w 685 and i also have a couple of amps in my list.

The emotiva hassame price brand new that the used Marantz.

Someone managed to hear both amps to compare in terms of quality ?

EDIT : Actually after a little research at emotiva A-100 I found they are class A/B, not class A, so its lacking quality compared to class A amps, this may explain the high budget difference