[joeq70]

EDIT: UPDATE!!!! PLEASE NOTE THAT TIDAL NOW OFFERS WASAPI SUPPORT NATIVELY. SHOULD BASICALLY SOUND THE SAME AS JRIVER, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE VST PLUGIN SUPPORT IN TIDAL FYI. ONLY USE THE BELOW GUIDELINES IF YOU FOR SOME REASON REALLY NEED TO RUN TIDAL THROUGH JRIVER.
 
 
Hello all! I decided to make this thread just in case someone out there finds themselves in the same position I was in a couple weeks ago. I decided to give Tidal FLAC streaming a try for a month, and by the end, I found myself wanting to cancel the service because the overall sound quality using Tidal in Google Chrome was inferior to listening to the same FLAC rips when played on my PC through JRiver Media Center.
 
The ultimate cause of this issue was that Tidal through the Chrome browser is forced to run via Direct Audio--this means that even though I had great quality files streaming from Tidal, the audio was being run through windows mixer which ultimately caused two issues for me: 1) slightly smaller soundstage and 2) slightly less bass. I previously avoided this when listening to my personal FLAC collection by setting up JRiver to play in WASAPI dedicated mode. Thankfully, I did a search to see if it is possible to run Tidal via WASAPI (or ASIO) and...there is!
 
Please note that I use JRiver Media Center...I do not know if this method works for Foobar or any other audiophile-friendly media player.  Feel free to report success/failure with another program. Anyway, here is how you do it:
 
1) Download and install JRiver Media Center. You can download a free trial here if you are curious and want to see if you notice a difference.
 
2) Open JRiver, then navigate to Tools>Options
 
3) Select "Audio" on the left and you will see a carrot on the right where you click under the heading "Audio Device."
 
4) Select your DAC and make sure either [WASAPI] or [ASIO] is at the end of the name. I use WASAPI because my DAC only supports that. I'm assuming that those who want to use ASIO can also use this method I'm describing.
 
5) Click the button just below the name of your DAC labeled "Device Settings"
 
6) Checkmark the box that says "Open device for exclusive access." Click OK
 
7) Click OK on the options menu. JRiver is now set up!
 
8) Click here to Download and install the latest Tidal desktop app for PC or Mac.
 
9) Open the Tidal Desktop App. Make sure JRiver is still open as well.
 
10) In Tidal, click "Settings" on the left side menu.
 
11) Click the heading labeled "Streaming"
 
12) Under "Sound Output" select the option that states "Speakers (JRiver Media Center XX ) "
 
 
 
Congratulations! You may now play songs in the Tidal app and get the befits of circumventing Direct Sound and instead use WASAPI or ASIO because the Tidal audio now streams directly through JRiver!
 
The only drawback is that so far I have to go to Settings>Streaming>Sound Output then select Speakers (JRiver Media Center __ ) every time I close and reopen the Tidal App. It seems this setting doesn't save by itself. A small price to pay for a noticeable increase in quality!
 
 
Happy Listening! 

 

[Sonic Defender]

^ There is also a setting in JRiver that allows you to take the stream directly into JRiver where you can even apply DSP if you wish and unless I'm mistaken it remains in place. I'll find the steps again. Thank you for your information, that will be very helpful I'm sure. Cheers.

 

[joeq70]

^ There is also a setting in JRiver that allows you to take the stream directly into JRiver where you can even apply DSP if you wish and unless I'm mistaken it remains in place. I'll find the steps again. Thank you for your information, that will be very helpful I'm sure. Cheers.

The method outlined above actually makes the audio stream through JRiver.I didn't say that explicitly so I'll add it to my post. If what you are saying is different please elaborate so I can understand it better!

 

[Sonic Defender]

In JRiver you go to options, go to General settings, in Advanced you will see a check box for WDM Driver, select it, driver installs. Close JRiver, go to Control Panel you will see a new device JRiver Media Centre 20, set that as the default. As long as JRiver is open when you play Tidal, Spotify or whatever it plays through JRiver. You can use DSP, all the controls. It is a direct sound option so I don't think it sounds as good as JRiver local content, but there you go. It is easy enough to enable and disable the default sound device through control panel.

 

[joeq70]

  In JRiver you go to options, go to General settings, in Advanced you will see a check box for WDM Driver, select it, driver installs. Close JRiver, go to Control Panel you will see a new device JRiver Media Centre 20, set that as the default. As long as JRiver is open when you play Tidal, Spotify or whatever it plays through JRiver. You can use DSP, all the controls. It is a direct sound option so I don't think it sounds as good as JRiver local content, but there you go. It is easy enough to enable and disable the default sound device through control panel.

Yes, the method I describe above allows use of DSP settings, but the song controls are through Tidal.

 

[beemerphile]

Is this better SQ than using the Tidal PC application?

 

[canthearyou]

Is this for use with the app or web only?

 

[joeq70]

Is this for use with the app or web only?

This works for the Desktop App only. The browser version of Tidal cannot take advantage of this.

 

[joeq70]

  Is this better SQ than using the Tidal PC application?

This is for use with the PC (or Mac) Application only. When you use the PC Application and you do not follow the instructions above, Tidal will use direct sound processing (even if you select your DAC in Tidal settings!). By following my instructions, you ensure that your DAC's sound is unaffected by the windows mixer. So in short, yes, it is better.

 

[mickylane]

Hi Joeq70,
I have been searching everywhere for guidance on this and was pleased to find your detailed steps.
But unfortunately for me this is not working.
I am using the latest Tidal Desktop app in Windows and JRiver 19. My DAC is Sennheser HDVD800.
I have followed your steps correctly but in Tidal sound output settings I am not getting the option to select Jriver The only options available to me are 1) Speakers (my DAC-HDVD800) or 2) System Default.
I suspect this could be due to the versions of JRiver / Tidal app I have because before I updated to the latest version of the Tidal App I did have the Jriver option available in Tidal sound output settings.
Please could you confirm what versions of the Tidal Windows app and JRiver you are using?
Any ideas on how I can get it working with my versions? Perhaps I need to upgrade my JRiver to version 21?
Really appreciate any advice you can give as this is driving me nuts!
Regards,
Michael

 

[Sonic Defender]

@mickylane I think you need version 20 or 21 which comes with the WDM (Windows Direct Media). You install it by going into Options > General > Features select the control box for WDM. After this is complete you should see JRiver through your Control Panel > Sound. Not positive, but this seems plausible. Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

 

[mickylane]

Thank you for your feedback Sonic Defender.
Will this approach give me "bit perfect" /optimal quality streaming of the Tidal flac files to my DAC though? (i.e. the same optimal sound quality I acheive when I play my local content flac files from ripped CDs in JRiver to my DAC in "exclusive" mode ASIO or WASAPI).

 

[Sonic Defender]

Thank you for your feedback Sonic Defender.
Will this approach give me "bit perfect" /optimal quality streaming of the Tidal flac files to my DAC though? (i.e. the same optimal sound quality I acheive when I play my local content flac files from ripped CDs in JRiver to my DAC in "exclusive" mode ASIO or WASAPI).

I have used it myself, and it sounds very good, but I suspect that as Tidal goes through a browser or the desktop app some DSP is happening either via Tidal, or through Windows. I have wondered this myself. I'm going to see if I can't find this out and get back to you, or, if you find this out before me you could let me know. I will test my JRiver setup today and see JRiver reports bit-perfect, unaltered output.

 

[mickylane]

Thanks very much, I'll be interesed to see how you get on with the test. I am unsure how to test that so would be keen to know the steps if you have time to explain.
FYI I received some feedback from Tidal today after querying how to get optimal connection to my DAC from the Windows Desktop app. They mentioned that "WASAPI support should be released on Monday" but said they don't support ASIO. Once WASAPI DAC connectivity is available on Tidal I would presume this could be "bit perfect", hopefully..

 

[Sonic Defender]

Glad to hear that Tidal responded. Yes WASAPI should indeed provide bit-perfect to the DAC. In JRiver there is a notification icon up on the top right side of the screen that lights up blue if no changes are being made and when you hold your pointer over the icon it will report if no DSP or DSP is being applied. That was the simple method I was going to use; however, that would only be able to report internally I believe so if there was any sound management or DSP to the signal prior to entering JRiver I'm not sure if that would be detectable by JRiver? Might be worth posting a question in the JRiver forums. I hope to get some today to do that myself.