First good headphones, B&O H6 or full size cans?
Jun 6, 2017 at 4:24 PM Post #16 of 28
Thanks Cossix.

What I'm most curious about at the moment is what I would be losing in a headphone like the H6 compared to a full size pair like the HD600 or a Beyerdynamic DT1770? I know that the open headphones have more soundstage, but is there anything else?

The latter two would definitely need an amp I'm assuming.
I've heard both HD600 and the H6 for a few hours each. Both sound incredible, but there are pros and cons to each.
The HD600
+soundstage, imaging and overall sound signature trumps the H6 from a well driven source.
+Open design is more airy and encompassing
-An amp isn't NEEDED, it will run straight from a laptop well enough, but an amp is highly advised to reach potential
-Design and materials are a step behind the H6
-Definitely leaks a fair bit of sound (tradeoff for the soundstage and airiness)
The H6
+easily driven from most sources, an amp isn't necessary, though it can never hurt
+Great build quality, nice leather and metal with modern design
+Great sound quality that's balanced and clear
+Closed back doesn't leak much sound
-well driven HD600 trumps overall H6 sound quality in most categories

This all being said, it's not a massive difference, the H6 still sounds incredible, and without amping, the HD600 sound quality edge diminishes. I'd say the biggest
difference you notice switching back between the two is the soundstage. H6 can also be used as great portable directly from phone for Flights and things of that nature.
 
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Jun 6, 2017 at 8:18 PM Post #17 of 28
I've heard both HD600 and the H6 for a few hours each. Both sound incredible, but there are pros and cons to each.
The HD600
+soundstage, imaging and overall sound signature trumps the H6 from a well driven source.
+Open design is more airy and encompassing
-An amp isn't NEEDED, it will run straight from a laptop well enough, but an amp is highly advised to reach potential
-Design and materials are a step behind the H6
-Definitely leaks a fair bit of sound (tradeoff for the soundstage and airiness)
The H6
+easily driven from most sources, an amp isn't necessary, though it can never hurt
+Great build quality, nice leather and metal with modern design
+Great sound quality that's balanced and clear
+Closed back doesn't leak much sound
-well driven HD600 trumps overall H6 sound quality in most categories

This all being said, it's not a massive difference, the H6 still sounds incredible, and without amping, the HD600 sound quality edge diminishes. I'd say the biggest
difference you notice switching back between the two is the soundstage. H6 can also be used as great portable directly from phone for Flights and things of that nature.
I agree with the majority of what was said here about the HD600 except for one thing--the soundstage. The HD600 soundstage is more on the sort of intimate side of the ledger rather than being spacious and wide. Maybe that's what was meant by the post, not sure, but I think it;s important for the OP to just be aware of the more intimate stage of the HD600. It is one thing that some people don't like about the HD600.
 
Jun 6, 2017 at 9:09 PM Post #18 of 28
Yeah I agree with you, as far as open backed headphones go the HD600 soundstage isn't super wide compared to competitors, but I was just directly comparing to the B&O H6 headphone. And in that case, it has a clearly bigger soundstage when listening back to back. Not night and day, but it is noticeable. I can see how my pros and cons up there could be misleading, I was pro-ing and con-ing vs the other headphone, not in general.
 
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Jun 6, 2017 at 9:50 PM Post #19 of 28
Yeah I agree with you, as far as open backed headphones go the HD600 soundstage isn't super wide compared to competitors, but I was just directly comparing to the B&O H6 headphone. And in that case, it has a clearly bigger soundstage when listening back to back. Not night and day, but it is noticeable. I can see how my pros and cons up there could be misleading, I was pro-ing and con-ing vs the other headphone, not in general.
Gotcha.
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 10:29 PM Post #20 of 28
Well I have been able to try the B&O a couple more times and compare them to other phones such as Bose. They are very nice sounding. I have not been able to find the Bowers & Wilkins P7 to compare, nor any full size Sennheisers.

However, I have found the Sony MDR-Z7 online and really like these. They are a full size headphone made from metal and leather which can be easily driven from most sources without an amp. There are mixed reviews online. However, looking at them as a complete package they are perfect for me. Does anyone have experience with these headphones?

My main reference is the supplied Apple earbuds that come with an iPhone. They must at least be better than these...
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 10:37 PM Post #21 of 28
P7 and P9 from B&W are the only portable headphones that truly blew me away both in sound and looks. I recommend them both.
 
Jun 27, 2017 at 12:44 AM Post #22 of 28
I bought the b&O h6, the sennheiser momentum 2's and the Bowers & Wilkins P7s to try out.

The b&o's weren't even competition for the other two. Not even close.

In the end I went with the sennheisers.
 
Jun 27, 2017 at 1:16 AM Post #23 of 28
I'm looking at getting my first good pair of headphones and have been reading all over this forum and video reviews on Youtube. So far I have narrowed it down to the Bang & Olufsen H6 headphones. A long time ago I had full size Sennheiser HD595's (I think).

Errr...so the HD595's were not good at all? What exactly did you not like about them? That way in case anyone here has heard the HD595 and whatever you're looking at can give you an idea if you're headed in the right direction.


What I like about the H6 is that it is made with real leather, machined metal, and they look very nice.

Just note that you'd be paying for those too. Of course, they'd also contribute to the sound - metal is more rigid than plastic, and leather is less porous than velour so if you were comparing earpads on the same drivers, there would be more audible bass on the leather pads, although that doesn't mean that the better Sennheisers for example have the plastic rattling with the bass notes.


My plan is just to run them from my MacBook 12" retina headphone jack, through iTunes, at home just to listen and relax. My listening lately has been along the lines of Philip Glass and Yosi Horikawa. Sometimes some Nick Cave. Closed back is 'probably' a preference, just so my partner doesn't need to listen to my music, too. However, if open back improves the sound dramatically I might look towards them instead.

The high sensitivity of the H6 is one thing that will come in handy here. Since they get really loud with a lot less power that basically means you'd be farther off from driving mainstream devices to produce easily audible distortion. It might be audible to me and a few others here if I crank it up but to most people, I wouldn't think so. If convenience is your thing then sensitivity is the key element to still getting good sound quality along with other features like how they fold (in case being able to lug them around is a requirement).

The other though is isolation, whether you lug them around or not, as this goes hand in hand with sensitivity. The H6 has fairly small earcups, and the confusing use of "over-ear" instead of "circumaural" which very clearly states as "around the ear" where "over" is interchangeable with "on," ie "on-ear," has some descriptions using "over ear" for the H6 despite how smal the earcups are. Unless you have earlobes with the circumference of but not hte depth of Shrek's trumpet earlobes, there is just no way these will be around your earlobes. At the very least, do not expect that the earpads will sit around your ears in case that's what you prefer for comfort. Isolation will also be different as it will depend more on clamp force, as it leaves a small gap that lets ambient noise into your ear canal (vs something that wraps around the earlobes with a slightly better seal given the same clamp force, which also wouldn't press against your earlobes) and, if you go the downward spiral of using higher volume to seal out more ambient noise, then you're also potentially sending sound out from the headphones and out into the room you're in.

At the very least though get your girlfriend into the store you tried them out and check if she can hear what you're listening to. if she can't hear them with ambient noise, then there's at least some hope that she wouldn't if you were listening at a lower volume in a quiet room.

However, if open back improves the sound dramatically I might look towards them instead.

Open back by itself (ie just cutting open the closed cups on any headphone) won't improve the sound, if anything the better headphones tend to come with open back cups but half of that is due to the drivers.

In any case, for your use case, open back headphones might increase the performance a little, but decrease marital harmony if you're planning on listening in the same room where your partner is sleeping. I don't think that's worth it, but hey, don't take my word for it since my solution to the problem is "open back, don't move in until you can afford a house with a dedicated office or better yet, an audio room (or meet somebody hot and insatiable, a fellow devotee to SLAANESH, whose stress relief is banging so we just bang each other to sleep)."


I was able to go into Adelaide and have a look at some headphones. There were limited options to test and the stores were very noisy. It seemed to me, though, that the B&O H6 was better sounding than the Sennheiser Momentums. There were also Sennheiser HD569 headphones, I'm not sure how they compared. These were across multiple stores and the music from each was different, I couldn't choose my own. There were no open full size phones to try unfortunately.

If one headphone you already tried out sounds good to you then that's a lot safer than gambling on a headphone you haven't heard yet, not to mention you're not exactly going for a more all-out hi-fi set up anyway. Can't you bring your Macbook to that store though? That way you can try it with the hardware you're planning on using it with. If you're on Spotify then save a few test tracks in your local storage so you won't have to depend on having an internet connection when you're there.


How would the H6 compare to a larger full size pair of headphones? Such as the Audio Technica ATH-A990Z or the open ATH-AD900X.

Likely better imaging and slightly flatter response. However:

1. Will you even perceive either, but more so imaging improvements?

2. Flatter response curve and lower sensitivity results in qualitatively "flatter" sound, ie, what some term "boring." It's like when people get a spiky response, 32ohm/98dB or higher RS2 (RS2e is 101dB/1mW) and a smoother response curve, 300ohm/96dB to 98dB HD580/600/650/6XX and hook them up to a CMOY and declare the Grados as "very dynamic, sounds like real music" and all Sennheisers "boring as hell" without even making sure that they're listening at the same output level (and even if they were, and it's at a high level to overcome ambient noise, the CMOY would likely be struggling a lot more with the 300ohm cans than the 32ohm Grado).


Would the H6 benefit much from a portable amplifier?

I wouldn't really bet on that, on top of which, I think there are still issues with USB C 3.1 and USB 2.0 DACs.


Would the H7 in wireless be much worse than the H6 sound quality? I've read wireless is a big compromise.

Only if you're using lossless files or the wrong headphones with BT dongles. The first is due to how even Apt-X isn't perfectly lossless, but if you're not using lossless files and expecting to have a reference system, I wouldn't worry about it. Second is because BT dongles (not necessarily BT-equipped, but otherwise normal design portable amps) have low voltage and current output, so they won't provide clean output for many reference headphones that tend to have lower sensitivity than Grados, portable headphones, a few hi-fi headphones, and mass market headphones. if the BT circuit is built into the headphone the manufacturer would have already done that using high efficiency drivers to begin with, considering they need to keep the BT receiver+DAC+amp circuit as compact and lightweight as possible while a single charge gets you through a long haul flight (plus maybe some wait time at the terminal).



My aim is to keep the setup simple, and I love the stunning design and materials of the H6, but I would really love to find out if I will lose much in terms of sound quality over other potential options.

Between the wirelss H7 and wired H6 what you really have to decide on is whether your idea of simplicity would compromise with either having a cable connecting the headphone to the laptop and charge only the laptop, or have no cable connecting them but you'd have to charge the headphone (and carry the cable to do that).
 
Jun 27, 2017 at 6:55 AM Post #24 of 28
Errr...so the HD595's were not good at all? What exactly did you not like about them? That way in case anyone here has heard the HD595 and whatever you're looking at can give you an idea if you're headed in the right direction.

Yes, the title is confusing. It is so long ago that I can't remember how my old Sennheisers used to sound.

Are you saying that using music which is not lossless will be of the same quality between wired and wireless headphones? I felt that the H7 did not have sound equal to that of the H6 but was harsher.

I think that I will get either the Bowers and Wilkins P7 or the Sony MDR-Z7.
 
Jun 27, 2017 at 8:47 AM Post #25 of 28
Yes, the title is confusing. It is so long ago that I can't remember how my old Sennheisers used to sound.

Alright, so practically there's no point to taking the old Sennheisers into account in any way.


Are you saying that using music which is not lossless will be of the same quality between wired and wireless headphones? I felt that the H7 did not have sound equal to that of the H6 but was harsher.

I'm saying that your only clear problem with wireless vs wired is wasting storage space or data using BT. That still leaves you with the quality of the amplifier hardware on the BT headphone and whatever you run the wired headphone with.

However the gap isn't as big as you might think it is considering:

1. You are not exactly comparing a wireless headphone to a really good headphone, regardless of whether the latter is driven by a really good amp (in which case this will likely do better, but of course your preferences are still at play) or a crap amp (where the good headphone might be at a disadvantage).

2. What you are comparing is a wireless headphone to a comparably high efficiency wired headphone. They probably have the exact same driver. Sure, there might be some differences in the circuit quality of the amp in the wireless headphone vs whatever was driving the wired headphone, but that in turn has more problems.

First, what exactly was driving the wired headphone? If it wasn't your Macbook then you're farther off from replicating your own use case scenario. What if it was driven by a low noise amp like the O2? As much as your Macbook isn't bad, if that was the case anyway, then the H6 might not sound the same when you use it with your Mac. Second, even if the wireless headphone was in wired mode, if the amp circuit isn't bypassed, then even if they were both hooked up to the same amp in a demo set up then it won't matter (and probably even put the wireless headphone at a disadvantage).

Second, your comparison might have some issues - what volume did you set them both to? Wireless adds some complication to that since, even if both used the same drivers, you're less sure if both are actually at the same output level owing to the amp in the wireless headphone even if you were using the Macbook. Setting an output level on Mac OS the same doesn't take into account what voltage the Macbook's DAC-HPamp chip is operating at and what THD and noise levels vs the same in the BT receiver-DAC-HPamp circuit built into the wireless headphone barring using a 1000hz test tone and a dB meter. The observation that the H7 was harsher could be partly due to it playing slightly higher. Even 1dB of difference can do that.


I think that I will get either the Bowers and Wilkins P7 or the Sony MDR-Z7.

Just make sure you try both with your Macbook if you can.
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 9:14 AM Post #26 of 28
The B&O H6 2nd gen, sounds amazing! I got it after being disappointing with the treble response and soundstage of the Oppo PM-3.

I agree that you should start with a HQ closed back, 1st, and then work your way up from there.

For 1st time quality cans, you really cant go wrong with an ATH-M50x (regardless of any detractors here or elsewhere.). They are great consumer/pro cans, that are very versatile. Its got hyped bass and treble (At frequency points where it naturally sounds good hyped to people). It sounds fun and exciting, responds well to EQ, and is loud/sensitive enough to be driven by almost all current portable sources. It really is a great starting point to HQ cans. The H6 v2 is like a more refined and sophisticated version of the m50x. With more even and controlled bass, smoother treble, and a wider soundstage. It has less volume though. So depending on your portable source, results may vary.

Compared to other headphones I own or have listened to extensively, including: [Open back] ATH-R70x, Beyerdynamic DT-880 pro, Sennheiser HD580/600/650/595/598, Phillips SHP-9500 - [Closed Back] ATH-MSR7, ATH-m50x, ATM-M40x, ATH-m70x, Sony MDR-1A, Shure SRH-840 or 440, Beyerdynamic 770 pro, Sennheiser HD598cs, Oppo PM-3,etc, V-Moda M-100, Sennheiser Momentum v1/v2, Bose QC35, Sony MDR-7506/V6/7520, Focal Spirit Pro, and several others I can't recall atm, - The B&O H6 2ng gen is probably in the top 3 of best value/sound going up to and/or around $300-$400.

It really is a toss up at that point, and comes own to taste, preference, and minor nitpicking.

I haven't heard the P7's or Z7's. So I can't comment on those. I can only go by review consensus at this point. But I remember being steered away from the P7 at some point. I love the Sony MDR-1A's, so I'm definitely curious about the Z7's. I do agree with Marco's review consensus though. It seems like he hears music the way I hear it, as well.

If you got the resources, get 3-4 of the top candidates, audition, and keep the one you love the most. And remember, price doesn't always dictate quality or match preference. :)
 
Oct 27, 2017 at 4:16 PM Post #27 of 28
This is my review I put on amazon uk. I have many sets of headphones, ranging from a few pounds to the famous Sennheiser HD650 currently £319 on Amazon. I have been disappointed over the years with what I have heard . Now I have finally found one set that is great. That is the B&O H6. Other headphones might have a flatter frequency response, better dynamic range etc. The one thing that is important to me is musicality, and that is where the B&O H6 wins. I agree my HD650 phones are technically better, but from a musicality point they lose out. I have been trying to find the flattest frequency response and the closest to the ‘real world sound’ as possible for a long time. This sounds great on paper, but on listening, the emotion, the passion, the feeling of the music has been left behind to produce a sterile flat response which is devoid of that word, emotion. These headphones have emotion and feeling in bucket loads. I have listened to a whole album for the first time in many a year today. I normally skip from track to track to convince myself that my new headphones are better than the last ones I bought. The treble is a bit better here, the bass is a bit better there. With these I hear everything so clear and with feeling, from the lowest lows to the highest highs, it’s difficult to describe in words how good these are. I always thought B&O were over priced and also the sound was not as good as I could get elsewhere for the same money. I am happy to be wrong.

I am sure we are all trying to find the ultimate sound and we believe a lot what we read on the internet. I was SO convinced that the HD650 headphones were the ultimate. Don’t get me wrong these are great headphones. But like I said in my review above, I was so intent in getting so called real, accurate sound that I had got lost in all the hype and believing that I was correct. It is allowed to disagree with each other, but for me I have finally found a set of headphones that make music, not just play the notes. There is a BIG difference.
 
Oct 27, 2017 at 8:11 PM Post #28 of 28
This is my review I put on amazon uk. I have many sets of headphones, ranging from a few pounds to the famous Sennheiser HD650 currently £319 on Amazon. I have been disappointed over the years with what I have heard . Now I have finally found one set that is great. That is the B&O H6. Other headphones might have a flatter frequency response, better dynamic range etc. The one thing that is important to me is musicality, and that is where the B&O H6 wins. I agree my HD650 phones are technically better, but from a musicality point they lose out. I have been trying to find the flattest frequency response and the closest to the ‘real world sound’ as possible for a long time. This sounds great on paper, but on listening, the emotion, the passion, the feeling of the music has been left behind to produce a sterile flat response which is devoid of that word, emotion. These headphones have emotion and feeling in bucket loads. I have listened to a whole album for the first time in many a year today. I normally skip from track to track to convince myself that my new headphones are better than the last ones I bought. The treble is a bit better here, the bass is a bit better there. With these I hear everything so clear and with feeling, from the lowest lows to the highest highs, it’s difficult to describe in words how good these are. I always thought B&O were over priced and also the sound was not as good as I could get elsewhere for the same money. I am happy to be wrong.

I am sure we are all trying to find the ultimate sound and we believe a lot what we read on the internet. I was SO convinced that the HD650 headphones were the ultimate. Don’t get me wrong these are great headphones. But like I said in my review above, I was so intent in getting so called real, accurate sound that I had got lost in all the hype and believing that I was correct. It is allowed to disagree with each other, but for me I have finally found a set of headphones that make music, not just play the notes. There is a BIG difference.

Musicality is VERY important, and the H6 has that in spades. For music enjoyment and listening, they are some of the best. No doubt. Most of the time, technically accurate and well spec'd headphones are good more for reference, rather than just rocking out. For example, my PM3's are very impressive, but I'd rather listen with my H6's or m40x's to enjoy.
 

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