[Triode User]

A friend and I have got a Blue 2. We listened to it in our environment. Both of us bought it when we had listened to music for just a few minutes.
It was his turn, because I prefer silver, and the test unit is black. Now I must wait. Nevertheless, we have a problem, regarding to the BNC cables.
When I first connected the Blue to the DAVE, I took our high-quality silver cables from Audiosensibility, mine is 1.5m and his is 1m, even if I had read, that the cables
should be of equal length. The short ones supplied look quite cheap, so I thought quality is more important than length, and I was completely wrong.
The sound was harsh, more like a CD player from the past. I switched cables and the journey to HIFI heaven started.
The problem is now, that these short cables are about 50cm.
There is common sense that the rule the shorter the better does not apply to digital cables, they should be longer, at least 1m, because of reflection.
So, I have questions:
- Is the length of the cables unimportant in this special dual application?
- Is the quality of the cables unimportant in this application, or would it still be an advantage to buy "better" cables.
I remember well, that I used a silver one when I had the DAVE on trial, but the cable from the Company above was much better, and silver as well.
My friend is going to drill a hole into one board of his rack to save length, but my rack is made from Plexi, and I have to use longer cables.

Both of us would appreciate the help of Mr. Watts. Thank you.

Mr W may well chime in but he has already posted in post 527 of this thread regarding the dual cables. I have copied his post in a post below but the spirit of his post was that he found that longer cables sounded better than shorter cables and this is surmised to be because of the better RF rejection of the longer cables. Your guess that quality is more more important than length is, I think, the exact opposite of what is found. In reality length (longer is better) is more important than quality (or should I say that length is more important than price on the basis that price does not always equate to quality). So far the message is that as long as the quality is reasonable there is no real reason to pay exotic prices and 1m (or maybe better 1.5m or even 2m) should sound fine.

Rob was going to try some more testing involving qualities of cable etc and ferrites but I guess he has more important items on his agenda.

Bear in mind with silver that it only has 5% better conductance than copper so be cautious about thinking it is likely to benefit a digital signal. A well terminated plug is more likely to be important.

 

[HiResGeorge]

Quite unexpectedly, my second Blu II unit has arrived. Like Dave, I'm sure it will sound better in silver!

It will be interesting to hear the Blu Dave combination again since I have got quite used to standalone Dave now and have been happy with it.

A friend and I have got a Blue 2. We listened to it in our environment. Both of us bought it when we had listened to music for just a few minutes.
It was his turn, because I prefer silver, and the test unit is black. Now I must wait. Nevertheless, we have a problem, regarding to the BNC cables.
When I first connected the Blue to the DAVE, I took our high-quality silver cables from Audiosensibility, mine is 1.5m and his is 1m, even if I had read, that the cables
should be of equal length. The short ones supplied look quite cheap, so I thought quality is more important than length, and I was completely wrong.
The sound was harsh, more like a CD player from the past. I switched cables and the journey to HIFI heaven started.
The problem is now, that these short cables are about 50cm.
There is common sense that the rule the shorter the better does not apply to digital cables, they should be longer, at least 1m, because of reflection.
So, I have questions:
- Is the length of the cables unimportant in this special dual application?
- Is the quality of the cables unimportant in this application, or would it still be an advantage to buy "better" cables.
I remember well, that I used a silver one when I had the DAVE on trial, but the cable from the Company above was much better, and silver as well.
My friend is going to drill a hole into one board of his rack to save length, but my rack is made from Plexi, and I have to use longer cables.

Both of us would appreciate the help of Mr. Watts. Thank you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I connect Blu II via dual BNC to Dave using 2 Chord Company Ltd Signature Digital Super Aray matched 1.0 metre cables .. the results are superb.

 

[rrolls]

I thank you for the answers, so the rule is still valid,
but the question remains: Why do they supply 50cm cables? To promote their rack!

 

[Malcyg]

I thank you for the answers, so the rule is still valid,
but the question remains: Why do they supply 50cm cables? To promote their rack!

Probably to guarantee that you can get up and running at the lowest cost to them. But the possibility of selling a stand or two won't hurt either.

 

[Articnoise]

Mr W may well chime in but he has already posted regarding the dual cables. The spirit of his post was that he found that longer cables sounded better than shorter cables and this is surmised to be because of the better RF rejection of the longer cables. Your guess that quality is more more important than length is, I think, the exact opposite of what is found. In reality length (longer is better) is more important than quality (or should I say that length is more important than price on the basis that price does not always equate to quality). So far the message is that as long as the quality is reasonable there is no real reason to pay exotic prices and 1m (or maybe better 1.5m) should sound fine.

Rob was going to try some more testing involving qualities of cable etc and ferrites but I guess he has more important items on his agenda.

Bear in mind with silver that it only has 5% better conductance than copper so be cautious about thinking it is likely to benefit a digital signal. A well terminated plug is more likely to be important.

Why should a longer digital cables have better RF rejection? The longer the cable, the more it will act like an antenna.

https://www.audiostream.com/content/digital-cables-and-noise

 

[rrolls]

It is all about reflections, there is an interesting article about 75 Ohm digital transmission:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm

 

[Triode User]

I thank you for the answers, so the rule is still valid,
but the question remains: Why do they supply 50cm cables? To promote their rack!

You are lucky. I didn't get ANY free cables apart from the power cord.

 

[Triode User]

Why should a longer digital cables have better RF rejection? The longer the cable, the more it will act like an antenna.

https://www.audiostream.com/content/digital-cables-and-noise

Rob Watts in post 527.
"OK I have had a chance to listen to some BNC cables. I have a 0.5M BNC to BNC, a $500 audiophile BNC, and a 2M BNC to BNC.
To remove variations due to cable upsetting other things, I used MSI lap-top > USB > Blu 2 > BNC cable > Dave > Audioquest Nighthawks.
The first test was the 0.5M against the audiophile cable - and the $500 was smoother, with better depth.
Next I tried the 2M BNC against the 0.5M BNC - and the 2M was better than the 0.5M cable. Moreover, it also was a bit better than the $500 audiophile cable.
The longer length is perhaps surprising; until one realizes that longer lengths means more RF filtering by the cable itself.
So I have on order some more cables, of 1M, 2M and 5M lengths, together with ferrite clamps on cores as this should further improve RF isolation. I will report back.
Conclusions? Yes there is a small difference; so far don't spend huge sums on audiophile cables, just quality RF cables."

 

[Articnoise]

It is all about reflections, there is an interesting article about 75 Ohm digital transmission:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm

Steve is not really saying that longer cables have better RF isolation and I’m well aware of Steve N recommended length for less reflections. This paper has been debated in most audio forum in the past. FYI I have an Off-ramp 5 made by him and a 1,5 m SPDIF cable does not sound better than 1 meter IME.

”The other obvious solution is to make the Transport S/PDIF driver faster. If the transition took only 10 nanoseconds to complete rather than 25, the reflection would arrive at 6 nanoseconds with a half-meter cable, and the reflection with a 1-meter cable would arrive after the transition had completed. Faster transitions also cause the receiver to switch more predictably, which reduces jitter even more.”

Please read this as well for risetime of the Off-ramp 5. Maybe it’s much higher in Blu Mk. 2

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=104997.0

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I connect Blu II via dual BNC to Dave using 2 Chord Company Ltd Signature Digital Super Aray matched 1.0 metre cables .. the results are superb.

Very pleased to hear that George as I intend to use 2 x 1.0 metre Chord Company Ltd Sarum Digital Super Aray.

Do you have any further thoughts to share on the Blu Dave sound?

 

[Triode User]

Very pleased to hear that George as I intend to use 2 x 1.0 metre Chord Company Ltd Sarum Digital Super Aray.

Do you have any further thoughts to share on the Blu Dave sound?

Why not try a £20 or $20 cable first and see if you like it? You might be surprised.

 

[HiResGeorge]

Very pleased to hear that George as I intend to use 2 x 1.0 metre Chord Company Ltd Sarum Digital Super Aray.

Do you have any further thoughts to share on the Blu Dave sound?

2 thoughts -
1 - It's truly amazing (when partnered with Dave)
2 - if the maximum playing time is tweaked, then happy days!

ps. - some of the in-depth technical jargon that has been talked about in some of the previous posts means absolutely nothing to me. The only things I consult and trust are my own ears !!!

 

[Malcyg]

Having returned a Blu II that I was loaned - it was black and I wanted silver - I returned to listening with Dave alone and was quite happy with it. Indeed, as time passed, I was starting to wonder whether I should cancel my order for Blu II.

My second Blu unit arrived and, listening to BluDave again now, it is literally making me laugh out loud with each track that I play. You can visualise the musicians in the room so clearly and vividly. I can actually see musicians that I know well in my mind. The difference is not massive to the casual observer, but listen properly and it is a sizeable step. Small, yet huge. I would liken it to visiting the opticians - you look at the chart and it all looks ok, then they drop a lens in and bam, it is suddenly in sharp and vivid focus.

Currently feeling quite happy that I didn't bail out.

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Still waiting on my order. Looking forward to improved timber and focus via the Blu MkII. Particularly for bass. One thing I would say about the Dave though, dynamics are very good indeed. I am not talking about macro dynamics. It's the micro dynamics that really excelled with the Dave for me. It has a way of engaging you in the same way you would be engaged if a good musician sat down with an acoustic guitar in a pub and played a song you hadn't even heard before. Unfamiliar live music can still touch you and Dave can pull that trick off too.

 

[Malcyg]

Still waiting on my order. Looking forward to improved timber and focus via the Blu MkII. Particularly for bass. One thing I would say about the Dave though, dynamics are very good indeed. I am not talking about macro dynamics. It's the micro dynamics that really excelled with the Dave for me. It has a way of engaging you in the same way you would be engaged if a good musician sat down with an acoustic guitar in a pub and played a song you hadn't even heard before. Unfamiliar live music can still touch you and Dave can pull that trick off too.

Yes, Dave definitely does do that, I agree. BluDave is just the spectacles that you didn't realise you needed.