Quote: I think this is closely related to the question i started this thread with.  Is the error of using a standard pinna/ear canal greater than the error of not including them.  I don't know for sure.

Quote: My understanding: Acoustic impedance does have effect, small to moderate for some phones, increasing at higher frequencies, but also increasingly difficult to measure.  LEAKAGE is the elephant in the room.  We have seen HUGE effects for leakage, particularly closed supraaural phones...

Quote: Yes, but different people would have different responses in the diffuse field, and yet different responses with headphones.  For any given person, if this difference was the same for the DF condition  and the headphone condition, then it would work as you say.  BUT, i don't assume...

Quote: This is essentially what we are doing (see "The Relationship between Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality"  Sean Olive and Todd Welti,, AES preprint 8744, AES 133rd convention.  However, I'm not sure I see why that is accurate for people with all sizes and shapes of...

Quote: I personally don't tend to think in terms of CSD or related depictions, hard for me to interpret.    But even so, do you think pinna would make the decay longer?

Now that you mention it, Gras has some ear simulators that have controlled leaks.  I'm at home now so don't remember the model.  But it does not have pinnae.  Not sure what it is used for, perhaps telephonic measurements.   I'll have to check into the Plantronics thingy.  So, you are...

So, you are saying that the effect is small, but would be accounted for anyway  with the coupler measurement.   I'm just saying the effect might be significant for some headphones, but agree that it should be accounted for with the coupler measurement.  And yes, I agree that the blocked meatus...

We are doing looking into that now, JMS!

I'm not sure I'd agree that PDR is not a problem with circumaural headphones.  True, the data shown in the original Muller/Hammershoi papers does seem to show modest variations, though in the "Transfer Characteristsics..." paper they only show up to 7 kHz (and PDF is increasing with freq. up to...

OK, it could be called a DF with -5dB tilt I suppose.  I think if you listened to the ISO DF and the Audeze and switched back and forth you would hear a huge difference though.   FWIW, here is the curve we get for the Audeze on Gras 43AG coupler.   Nevermind, I don't have permission yet!

I don't agree that pinna meausrements are only made at blocked meatus.  Our coupler has pinna and ear canal and eardrum simulator (711).  I know that blocked meatus measurements are recommended for some conditions, but they would not be best if the PDR was significant, since they remove the ear...

Glad you agree, Udauda.   about the "clamps", we got those with the Gras 43AG Ear and Cheek Simulator.  I wondered the same thing: what are these for?  It doesn't make sense to use some particular force, even if it IS repeatable, if it doesn't represent the actual force applied by the...

I think perhaps you are referring to the DF-normalized plot when you say that about the slope (?)  I am thinking abut the raw measured response (no assumptions about how it is normalized, corrected, etc.).  The DRP/coupler response definitely slopes up slightly as you go up in frequency, with...

Just wondering what anyone thinks about testing headphones on a coupler, with pinna and simulated ear canal, versus no pinna and no canal.  The second option would just be a simple plate with a mic or mics flush mounted in it.   The pro-pinna argument might be stated:  Real conditions...

We are also planning to do some "virtual" tests, using a single headphone with multiple eq's.   As for crossfeed etc, that is another subject.  We are focusing on simple target curves for now.

Thanks for welcoming me to this forum!       I will restate my opinion one more time and then let it go.  Your plot is a full -10 dB from 2 kHZ up, with respect to the ISO DF you reference.  For me that would be a large enough difference to say that it is not "DF" equalized, with...

Can I ask a couple of questions?  I am the second author on the "Relationship..." paper.  I apologize for coming in a bit late to this discussion.  A couple of questions:   Udauda, your plot of the Audeze confirms our assertion that the Audeze does not have a "DF" response, otherwise it...