[SHAMuuu]

Will Sennheiser create a totally exciting new headphone design ever again? it seems for the last decade they are only a tuning company. I still love their stuff though.

At this point, I don't mind if they stick to the hd600 chassis, and continually tune it or just place new drivers which are interchangeable. That will only make the line more legendary.

Perhaps if they made a sidegrade to the hd58x (entry-mid) level, with a larger speaker unit (50-60mm) as a "fun" alternative

In a perfect world, I wish every company would have a dual driver in their lineup with the dedicated "subwoofer" but as a "fun headphone"

JVC did it with the sz1000/2000, but it was entry level. There just isn't a market for it as people want one driver to "do it all"

But nowadays, its not safe to tread such paths. JVC put a 30mm driver, with seperate dedicated 55mm "subwoofer", and even used advanced damping with brass bits, and micron glass, and they were $99 - $150USD at one point.

So, I would think Sennheiser could make a "dual driver" for the 500-1k market.

But it's not worth their time XD

 

[Plieb]

Back to topics.. The main thing is should i buy the Hd660S2 while i have all sennheiser phones with the hdv820 amp ? I mainly use the old regular silver hd800 i think is better than hd800S (more accurate) one of the most technically capable hps even among new TOTL hps from Different brands (also i bought it for 500 euro used , bested my 4k utopia in many aspects which i sold) . This new hd660S2 gives the hd6xx series the same transient speed and accuracy as in the HD800 also with more dynamics and more slam not as loose boomy bass as in the hd6xx series? I also use my focal clear mg if I want a really dynamic experience .. Whis hd660S2 would fill the gap and I could sell my Clear MG.

⁸

@ericpalonen what's the date for an official announcement/release? seems to be a bit all over the place at the moment.

Cannot confirm one way or another but it's possible that Tyll may have unknowingly suffered from a form of tinnitus making him highly irritable to certain higher frequencies. All 3 of my favourite phones, the HD700, AKG k812 and the HD660S received similar fates while he loved the earlier Audeze that lacked any high frequency content or the ("veiled"?) 650s. That could also be saying something about my hearing, hopefully not. lol
Should say though that I always thoroughly enjoyed his reviews. : )

Yes his reviews were great. Here is another bit of information about him. When he went off the grid in retirement he got rid of all his phones except a pair of Bose. He did say that his hearing was impaired so what you discuss makes sense .
.

 

[Rob80b]

.......
Yes his reviews were great. Here is another bit of information about him. When he went off the grid in retirement he got rid of all his phones except a pair of Bose. He did say that his hearing was impaired so what you discuss makes sense .
.

....and that's were things got confusing...."the frequencies" that irritated Tyll, possibly due to his hearing, were real and measuarable and folks jumped on the bandwagon and pointed fingers at the graphs saying look, see Tyll is right, these phones suck. lol ..... while others, like myself were not irritated in the least
What I'm saying is psycho-acoustics is a very powerful phenomenon and cannot be ignored....now depending on which professional reviewer gets 1st dibs on the S2 will be interesting. : )
I just don't believe, but I could be wrong, that long standing manufacturers who are specialist in professional audio recording and reproduction with decades of R&D like Sennheiser, AKG, Beyerdynamics to name a few go out of their way to make an irritating headphone.

 

[Luckyleo]

⁸



Yes his reviews were great. Here is another bit of information about him. When he went off the grid in retirement he got rid of all his phones except a pair of Bose. He did say that his hearing was impaired so what you discuss makes sense .
.

I addition to the Bose, I believe he kept a pair of dan clark audio Aeon (not sure if open or closed)

 

[ericpalonen]

That headphone takes EQ very nicely

This is one of my favorite remarks I've ever seen on here. I've always been a pro audio guy in addition to the love of Hi-Fi, and always made gear selections based on what the signal would sound like further down the line. Example: If I knew that an instrument sounded okay through one mic but would collapse after EQ or compression during mixing, I'd have to find a different mic. It is absolutely true that some gear does not like It's signal being shaped (this characteristic is a byproduct, and obviously not a development choice by the manufacturers). Great observation.

I'm running my 660S out of a Topping DX1, so this one being 300ohm is not for me.

Or maybe it is? The DX1 has no problem pushing "volume" with the HD650.

It will probably be fine but you'll end up running it toward the top of the gain range. There's only one way to find out

Will Sennheiser create a totally exciting new headphone design ever again? it seems for the last decade they are only a tuning company. I still love their stuff though.

Fair question. Good/Fast/cheap applies here (You can only have two of those three). Developing an all-new headphone is easy. You can even do it quickly these days. But...

...developing a truly GREAT all-new headphone is a different set of muscles. Design / chassis development has to satisfy so many acoustic requirements, let alone comfort and durability. When you develop a good chassis (5x5 series, 6x0 series, 8x0 series, IE x00 series), you try to stick with it for as long as you can get good performing product out if it, or, you see the opportunity to do something revolutionary down the road (8x0 was one of those departures at the time). I've seen some wild things that never made the light of day but always for a solid reason (usually a combination of two or more of: cost, limited ROI, durability, comfort, sound). The team is always working on a few new things. But they have to be killer to earn the UPC code.

Somewhere, an HE 1, released in 2015, is crying in a corner because you forgot about him Oh and MOMENTUM. And the IE series. Maybe you may not have found these exciting and we respect that but they were very warmly received by the Hi-Fi and tech communities within the past decade, especially if you consider their predecessors.

We have a video series coming up where we will likely discuss some of the challenges and opportunities that come with development, assuming someone asks (wink wink). Stay tuned! Thanks for the good question!

 

[GoodBoy]

Really hope S2 is a step up over others in HD6 lineup. Tried HD650 to me they werent much better than HD599 to warrant huge price markup. In fact I stick to latter mainly because of soundstage and imaginng. People have contradicting opinions about HD660S, maybe S2 will do better.

 

[ericpalonen]

Really hope S2 is a step up over others in HD6 lineup. Tried HD650 to me they werent much better than HD599 to warrant huge price markup. In fact I stick to latter mainly because of soundstage and imaginng. People have contradicting opinions about HD660S, maybe S2 will do better.

The S2 is not a departure from the S1 if we are talking about soundstage. If the 599 soundstage is more of your flavor I don't see you your opinion changing much with the S2 because they are indeed different. And that's okay...you know what you like. The tuning of the S2 certainly brings certain instruments closer but still the 600 flavor. Of course, I hope you get to at least try it so you can make the conclusion for yourself

 

[chesebert]

Will Sennheiser create a totally exciting new headphone design ever again? it seems for the last decade they are only a tuning company. I still love their stuff though.

You are free to pay Sennheiser $60k for their “totally new headphone design”

 

[headblid]

Every time I see a new Sennheiser release, I come in to ask about the next HD beyond the 800 series and then i see these perfectly sensible replies from @ericpalonen and am reminded of many of the times where I bought fast/subsequent releases from other manufacturers to just find flavours à gogo but very rarely a revolution… this is true for Sennheiser too to some extent, hd650 is a perfectly happy end of the road can for me.

Now, with that said and given the fantastic job on the recent IE series releases, I still would love to see an HD9xx or 10xx or something Bluetooth (I know, sacrilegious… but oh so convenient) that measures up to the top HDs sound…


Cheers,

This is one of my favorite remarks I've ever seen on here. I've always been a pro audio guy in addition to the love of Hi-Fi, and always made gear selections based on what the signal would sound like further down the line. Example: If I knew that an instrument sounded okay through one mic but would collapse after EQ or compression during mixing, I'd have to find a different mic. It is absolutely true that some gear does not like It's signal being shaped (this characteristic is a byproduct, and obviously not a development choice by the manufacturers). Great observation.

It will probably be fine but you'll end up running it toward the top of the gain range. There's only one way to find out

Fair question. Good/Fast/cheap applies here (You can only have two of those three). Developing an all-new headphone is easy. You can even do it quickly these days. But...

...developing a truly GREAT all-new headphone is a different set of muscles. Design / chassis development has to satisfy so many acoustic requirements, let alone comfort and durability. When you develop a good chassis (5x5 series, 6x0 series, 8x0 series, IE x00 series), you try to stick with it for as long as you can get good performing product out if it, or, you see the opportunity to do something revolutionary down the road (8x0 was one of those departures at the time). I've seen some wild things that never made the light of day but always for a solid reason (usually a combination of two or more of: cost, limited ROI, durability, comfort, sound). The team is always working on a few new things. But they have to be killer to earn the UPC code.

Somewhere, an HE 1, released in 2015, is crying in a corner because you forgot about him Oh and MOMENTUM. And the IE series. Maybe you may not have found these exciting and we respect that but they were very warmly received by the Hi-Fi and tech communities within the past decade, especially if you consider their predecessors.

We have a video series coming up where we will likely discuss some of the challenges and opportunities that come with development, assuming someone asks (wink wink). Stay tuned! Thanks for the good question!

 

[ericpalonen]

Every time I see a new Sennheiser release, I come in to ask about the next HD beyond the 800 series and then i see these perfectly sensible replies from @ericpalonen and am reminded of many of the times where I bought fast/subsequent releases from other manufacturers to just find flavours à gogo but very rarely a revolution… this is true for Sennheiser too to some extent, hd650 is a perfectly happy end of the road can for me.

Now, with that said and given the fantastic job on the recent IE series releases, I still would love to see an HD9xx or 10xx or something Bluetooth (I know, sacrilegious… but oh so convenient) that measures up to the top HDs sound…


Cheers,

Thank you

 

[Ichos]

I'm running my 660S out of a Topping DX1, so this one being 300ohm is not for me.

Or maybe it is? The DX1 has no problem pushing "volume" with the HD650.

The spec is 300Ω - 104 dB (1 V) so it is not that difficult to drive as the urban legend might suggest.

 

[headstef]

I'm running my 660S out of a Topping DX1, so this one being 300ohm is not for me.

Or maybe it is? The DX1 has no problem pushing "volume" with the HD650.

In my home there are more than 15 headphone outputs on different devices. Only our cell-phones cannot drive my HD-650 (103dB at 1V) to ear-shattering levels. All outputs exceed safety levels. Volume is never a real issue, look for quality instead!

 

[569424]

This is one of my favorite remarks I've ever seen on here. I've always been a pro audio guy in addition to the love of Hi-Fi, and always made gear selections based on what the signal would sound like further down the line. Example: If I knew that an instrument sounded okay through one mic but would collapse after EQ or compression during mixing, I'd have to find a different mic. It is absolutely true that some gear does not like It's signal being shaped (this characteristic is a byproduct, and obviously not a development choice by the manufacturers). Great observation.

It will probably be fine but you'll end up running it toward the top of the gain range. There's only one way to find out

Fair question. Good/Fast/cheap applies here (You can only have two of those three). Developing an all-new headphone is easy. You can even do it quickly these days. But...

...developing a truly GREAT all-new headphone is a different set of muscles. Design / chassis development has to satisfy so many acoustic requirements, let alone comfort and durability. When you develop a good chassis (5x5 series, 6x0 series, 8x0 series, IE x00 series), you try to stick with it for as long as you can get good performing product out if it, or, you see the opportunity to do something revolutionary down the road (8x0 was one of those departures at the time). I've seen some wild things that never made the light of day but always for a solid reason (usually a combination of two or more of: cost, limited ROI, durability, comfort, sound). The team is always working on a few new things. But they have to be killer to earn the UPC code.

Somewhere, an HE 1, released in 2015, is crying in a corner because you forgot about him Oh and MOMENTUM. And the IE series. Maybe you may not have found these exciting and we respect that but they were very warmly received by the Hi-Fi and tech communities within the past decade, especially if you consider their predecessors.

We have a video series coming up where we will likely discuss some of the challenges and opportunities that come with development, assuming someone asks (wink wink). Stay tuned! Thanks for the good question!

Don't cry HE1 you are the legend of legends.

 

[catscratch]

Eh reusing the chassis and sticking to old designs makes sense, if they work. The state of the art in audio moves very slowly - if at all - at least in terms of headphone and speaker design. Check the original HE90, SR-Omega, even the SR-Lambda from 1979. They're still competitive today, and some of these are arguably still the very best headphones ever made. So if Sennheiser sticks to a design that works - there's nothing wrong with that. It works. Change it when it becomes obsolete, not before.

These headphones seem interesting - the 300 ohm voice coil is probably a step in the right direction. The measurements look solid, save for that dip around 4k. I wonder if it hides a resonance. Stuff like this is usually audible, but doesn't have to be dealbreaking - and that's assuming it's not a measurement artifact.

I'll probably pick this up at some point and see what's what. I've been using the HD600 and HD650 since around 2004, the HD650 is pretty much my daily driver headphone and has been for damn near 2 decades now and is perfect for the role. So an updated HD650 with the same tuning through the mids and highs but better bass and technicalities would the perfect upgrade - but even if the 660S2 is not an upgrade but more of a sidegrade with better bass, there will be a use case for that too. And if it's not, I'll be happy to use the HD650 for another 2 decades or more, as long as they keep making it. It's as close to a perfect headphone as I've come across.

Introductory price is a bit on the high side but bear in mind the HD650 was $550 on release too. Factoring inflation the price is about the same.

Fingers still crossed for an updated HE60 that's affordable for mere mortals, and I hope I don't have to wait another 20 years. HD600/650 tuning and form factor, electrostatic drivers, 580 volt bias and compatible with Stax. Make it happen boys, and keep the price sane.

 

[spruce]

Looks like 660S2 is currently removed from Amazon. Wonder why?