[m-i-c-k-e-y]

You can do fiber optic instead:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002086574264.html
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/LINDY-Ex...dp/B07YNVDSW9/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=lindy+42708

 

[Ghoostknight]

You can do fiber optic instead:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005002086574264.html
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/LINDY-Ex...dp/B07YNVDSW9/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=lindy+42708

good point, lol

tho these are far pricier
but with all these devices, either ethernet or optical the question probably is how noisy the receiver end is that is still connected to your dac

 

[sajunky]

good point, lol

tho these are far pricier
but with all these devices, either ethernet or optical the question probably is how noisy the receiver end is that is still connected to your dac

Clever, it is critical what is on the end.

USB extenders unless using ordinary 2.0 hub always suffered compability problems, it is related to a strict DC handshaking timing requirements. Even this expensive fiber unit is not 100% compatible. So far we tried workarounds like a kind of a poorman DDC's, but now there is no reason with new generation of high-speed isolator chips flooding a market. Intona was the one proving a concept, these are single chip implementations and affordable

I think a link to a dongle you posted is the same I listed as a few alternatives. You didn't read these last pages on the Douk Audio U2Pro thread.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

For low cost alternatives, maybe you should look for other format (say SPDIF).

 

[Ghoostknight]

the pcie card i bought arrived
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005005913316841.html

tho, i face the same problem as with all usb hubs/ports/cables etc i tested so far .... it seems to sound slightly different but not substantially better or worse (i think with the pcie card its slightly better...)

but after hearing "not much" of a difference i actually tried placing ferrite clamps on the usb cables i used, pretty much on each cable end a ferrite clamps and im running currently a "test setup" that goes like this:
2m usb A male to usb A female -> ifi isilencer -> 30cm usb A to usb B -> diy supercap filter -> 50cm usb A to usb B

Now ... imo placing more ferrite clamps did improve things more than using the PCIE card

(BTW my PC internally is pretty much filled with ferrite clamps on each Power supply cable at least 2-3, i also placed 3 additionally to the power cable that goes to the pcie card, this and using a lian li aluminium case actually improved things quite a bit without looking at specific hardware components)

Also placing termination 33k resistors for the shield on my DIY filter improved things... and all these clues here plus some "esoteric research" i did.... WHAT IF EMI/RFI actually doesnt matter because it goes into the dac altering things... but what if humans are so susceptible to EMI/RFI that we actually notice a subjective change in sound when we reduce the EMI/RFI "in the air" in our listening room?

i mean... people cant measure any difference between dacs (unless they are susceptible) but EMI/RFI radiation CAN be measured... also it seems to vary greatly if people can "hear" these changes or not

this is also where my idea comes from building a seconds diy filter and placing it at the pc end.... the one placed at the pc should effectivly reduce (in theory) radiation by the cable itself (well and emi/rfi pickup by the dac, because common mode chokes stack up in effectiveness)

i know it sounds kind of lunatic when you start with "how bad emi/rfi radiation is... uuhhh bad 5g" but imo this theory cant be ignored because of the factual measurements

 

[Ghoostknight]

i actually had a good idea...
i might try to DIY some shield for the pcie card with some plastic and copper tape and see whether this makes a difference...

the thing in my pc is its matx and the usb card now sits directly beside the GPU

 

[Ghoostknight]

i just did it
since its hard to A/B now i compared the pcie card again to the mainboard usb port ... imo the difference got more substantial between the two, tho hard to "really" say... but since it works i will leave it like this

i actually also just noticed while searching a good point to solder the shield on that the pcie express i posted above actually ties usb cable shield to chassi (it uses the metal bracket to connect to case ground) .. so i just soldered a wire to the metal bracket and to the shield

i also taped off the internal usb 3.0 connector since i wont use it

 

[sajunky]

im running currently a "test setup" that goes like this:
2m usb A male to usb A female -> ifi isilencer -> 30cm usb A to usb B -> diy supercap filter -> 50cm usb A to usb B

Why isilencer is plugged on the end of 2 meters cable? Ifi recommends plugging this device directly to the USB host (no cable). It is the most effective with the bus-powered portable DAC. Less for a desktop DAC that use USB power. It has no effect if DAC takes no USB power. By example my Audio GD R2R-11.

There is another device from the same company that is more useful in most cases — idefender. Exactly same application, it should be plugged directly to a host (no cable). It has a socket for external power supply redirecting ground loops, use it. It is the most critical part if any installation. Redirecting gound loop energy with a shortest surface area. It reduces EMI generated by cables. Once ground loop converts to EMI, it is difficult to deal with.

When isilencer is used with idefender, the later plugs directly to a host, then isilencer directly to idefender, (again) no cables.

Filtering is done on the end of cable, ferrite chokes, etc. You can place self-powered USB 2.0 hub there for secondary redirection of ground loops and regenerating frames.

Important! Do not use USB 3.x cables, only well shielded high-speed 2.0 cables. 3.0 cables have additional wires which are not used but carry a root-hub noise, as DAC will negotiate 2.0 high-speed. The same about 3.0 hubs.

You are familar with DIY, I think it will be understood. When you get USB isolators, application is the same as idefender, most likely render it useless.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Why isilencer is plugged on the end of 2 meters cable? Ifi recommends plugging this device directly to the USB host (no cable). It is the most effective with the bus-powered portable DAC. Less for a desktop DAC that use USB power. It has no effect if DAC takes no USB power. By example my Audio GD R2R-11.

i will test this, i use it near the dac because i always used it after the topping hs01 isolator i used, which was also sitting close to the dac, i got better SQ with this kind of setup before, i might need to retest here
also i was under the impression the ifi isilencer also filters data lines to some degree

You are familar with DIY, I think it will be understood. When you get USB isolators, application is the same as idefender, most likely render it useless.

well thats what im still unsure about... my diy filter works similar to the ifi grounddefender.. currently using 333ohm between grounds (ifi idefender uses 100 ohms) and i can remove the topping hs01 with no negative sideeffect (keep in mind my diy filter also filters power with a supercap and datalines with common mode chokes), i mean i cant make a real assumption here as long i just compared it to the topping hs01 ... but overall my usb setup SQ has improved much with some tweaks.... ferrite beads also made a kinda great improvement (currently i have 6 on my usb cable chain, with over 8 i get first dropouts)

filtering each line with my diy filter made the biggest difference so far ... switching usb cables is kinda a joke compared to this, after some testing the last weeks i feel like switching usb ports/hubs/cards/cables just "changes" the emi/rfi pickup and you may prefer one or the other but using ferrite clamps and passive filtering actually changes things drastically, so drastically that i think some people will straight up say they dont like it

filtering EMI/RFI effectively seems to tame high frequencys quite a bit and some people dont like this "dead-ening" of the sound

i mean, just ask yourself why ferrite beads do so much of a difference, IMO they dont effect SQ negatively but actually filter crap out that effects reproduction

the only thing where i say be careful with ferrite clamps is on audio signal cables and stuff like spdif/coax, with usb i kinda believe so far that as long you dont get dropouts you are good to go, keep filtering

 

[Ghoostknight]

but you got me thinking with the ifi isilencer recommendation...

i still have two of these i tested: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005005994377653.html (DONT buy these...there are far better alternatives for a bit more money imo)

these essentially just filter the power lines... but i will see whether this effects things when i plug this into the second port of the pcie card ... essentially it should also clean up the 5V that is used by the pcie card to some degree, i will test it

 

[kingoftown1]

I also prefer to shield my usb card. In this case carbon fiber over the Jcat USB XE. An second plate was added to the back of the card sometime after this pic was taken

 

[Ghoostknight]

the quick silver filter posted above does "something" in the free slot, i will need to burn it in to make sure, tho i also kinda didnt liked the SQ with the first one i tested (which i cant find right now)

but placing the ifi isilencer back into the pcie card actually did way more thanks for the tip... i wonder whether the pcie card itself profits from these filters

i guess specially in my case the pcie card can atleast profit from the power filtering aspect... since i dont use pc power for the dac anyway

Well... if this is a thing i might have to include some power filtering with my diy filter sister board that should sit at the pc end, just to filter the usb port/card... hmm

 

[Ghoostknight]

I also prefer to shield my usb card. In this case carbon fiber over the Jcat USB XE. An second plate was added to the back of the card sometime after this pic was taken

oh nice looking definitely better looking than my ghetto version haha... but my PC doesnt have windows... so i can live with it

 

[kingoftown1]

Carbon fiber is still worth trying, since it behaves differently to copper with regards to absorbing rather than reflecting high frequencies.

 

[sajunky]

Carbon fiber is still worth trying, since it behaves differently to copper with regards to absorbing rather than reflecting high frequencies.

NuMetal or Alix altermatives, they use different names due to patent/copyright issues, still very effective.

However the best method is isolating outside noisy PC enclosure everything: power/ground and data lines, reclock digital data if neccessary.