[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abstraction /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have an excellent speaker system, with Rosinante Signature II speakers--never well marketed and little known (msrp $6500 and comparable to the best speakers in that price range) and RWA Audio 70.2 monoblocks, in a dedicated and acoustically good, if not excellent, room. I have never had high-end head gear, but I listen a lot to an Ipod Classic with Westone 3, and it makes me think that getting really high-end cans and a high-end amp is worth doing. I heard HD800 at the B&H before Christmas, and I expect they were not running from the best amp and source (in a display with probably 100 other cans); it sounded wonderful. But it seems to me that the two experiences are completely different. If I had to choose, I agree with uncle Erik, that I would go with the speakers, because music is importantly social. With friends or lone, my wife and I listen to music almost daily. I have been away from my home system for nearly two weeks, and I miss it. But if I really want to listen music in the deepest, meditative sense, I find I can get into the music more deeply even with my Ipod. Listening to speakers can be a more physical-visceral experience. Cans can't rattle your bones and windows and bone-window rattling is fun; cans do not create an environment that can be shared. Much music is not made to be listened to closely; it has other purposes, to make you dance or serve as background music (both Brian Eno's Airport Music and a lot of Mozart were not written to be listened to intently). Much of the music I listen to--David S. Ware quartet, for example--requires concentration, and it will drive you crazy is you don't pay attention. A lot of music is good for its feel and spirit, not for the detail of the sound. Some music has to be listen to carefully and every detail counts. I am just back from the wedding of a niece in a haciendo in the mountains north of Gaudalajara. On the edge of a spectacular canyon, the place was stunning, and there was a mariachi band, which seemed very good to me, and the locals (Jalisco is where mariachi originated) agreed. One of my niece's friends from Gaudalajara said to me, after the accordion player had puffed up like a large frog, and bellowed a rousing song, "the guy's got lungs." It was wonderful fun, but you wouldn't want to listen too closely to music like that. Of course, head gear is necessary on planes and trains and, when your family and neighbors don't want to be disturbed, but I think if you really want to get into complex music--and there is complex music in all genres--and if you can't hear it live, cans are the way. That said, hear it live, if you can. I am going to hear Ras Moshe and Earth Space tonight at the Stone in NYC , Ras Moshe on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads Listen to "Turtle all the way down."

Thanks Abstraction, for this great missive.

I couldn't agree more with your sentiments on what some music is intended for etc. and why I'll always listen to my music in various settings. There's a lot of my collection that I simply am not interested in listening to with my headphones, but get a real kick out of playing in the background over speakers while doing something else.

 

[mminutel]

I just did get a pair of decent speakers. I still like the sound of my headphones more, but they usually only see use now when I need to be quiet. The soundstage on my speakers as well as the fact that they aren't fatiguing makes up for the small lack of sound quality. I also like the ability to share my music with others.

 

[jsplice]

I love my headphones and seem to be more obsessed with them, but overall I enjoy sound from speakers better.

 

[tosehee]

There is no substitute for speakers, and vice versa.

 

[nders]

totally different level of sound imo. And I only have a very brief session with Hifi and i thought they pretty much destroy any headphones.

you just can't get the true spacious, real, air-and-distance-required mixing of sound that leads to ultimately the "absolute" soundstaging of speakers with 2 tiny drivers sticking to your ears less than 3cm away.

 

[Lavcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm with Uncle Erik - a good speaker rig will completely transport you to another world. Unfortunately, that journey tends to be abruptly cut short when you see the sticker price on top of the cabinets.

I sort of disagree. Over the years I have spent more on Helmholtz bottles and other cat fur collecting acoustic treatments than I have on a lifetime of headphones. But headphones transport me in a way that speakers don't.

Granted with headphones it is less easy to pirouette in ecstacy at the sweet spot in the middle of the room.


Disclaimer: we all know the sweet spot is not in the center of the room, but the alternative was less poetic. And had I working amps to drive my speakers I would probably spend more time in the living room. However my statement about headphone listening still stands.

Also, visceral bass that causes the stylus to leave the vinyl is an experience in pain.

 

[etiolate]

the only thing that HPs can't provide that speakers can is the full body experience. sometimes it's nice to juice up those speakers and feel the music in my chest.

 

[mminutel]

Alright, I will somewhat revoke my last statement. I still very much like speakers, but it has taken having a "decent" pair of speakers to make my headphones shine. I have been listening to my speakers exclusively for about two days and just not put my headphones on for some listening. I like the sound quality of my headphones a lot more than my speakers. Compared to the Energy speakers I have the D2000s are better all around. The instrument separation is much more pronounced and the bass is a lot better. Given that my speakers only go down to 65hz or so, I expected this. I still love my speakers. I definitely like the increase in sound stage that a speaker gives as well as the ability to share my music with friends. I just didn't realize how good my headphones were until I got the speakers.

 

[pearljam5000]

how about near field monitors vs headphones?

 

[hipcat]

If you want to feel the bass as you listen to headphones get yourself some aura bass shakers and attach them to your chair. You'll feel the music with them.

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by etiolate /img/forum/go_quote.gif the only thing that HPs can't provide that speakers can is the full body experience. sometimes it's nice to juice up those speakers and feel the music in my chest.

I prefer to keep heart attacks and music seperate.

 

[oktapod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif how about near field monitors vs headphones?

The difference drops, as near field monitors are often active (avoiding mechanical crossovers) and the smaller distance between your ear and the speaker, combined with the fact that the relative distance between the speaker->ear distance and the speaker->room boundary distance is different, means that detail (if it's there) is easier to hear. Sure, there are exceptions, but I've ALWAYS found that detail diminishes the further one gets from a loudspeaker, due to varying factors (not all within a loudspeaker manufacturer's control). Also, near-field listening invariably results in setups with the speakers being wider apart (relative to the speaker->ear distance) than with mid- and far-field listening (due largely to practicality).

I'd still suggest that you'd have to buy a pretty damned expensive active monitor to approach the detail in a current state-of-the-art can or electrostatic earphone. Sure, the visceral elements of resonance in your legs, chest and so on won't be there with cans, but the detail and precision will almost always better any speaker.

I'd be willing to wager that a pair of HD600s (£200ish) driven by a competent head-amp will deliver roughly the same amount of detail and precision as my old Audiophysic Avanti III (£9k-ish, Stereophile Class A rated, superlative floorstanding speakers). Having heard the HD800 (and ordered, should arrive any day now) I can safely say that I have never heard* any speaker at any price - electrostatic (Quad 57/63 mainly), horn or 'conventional' - that has that level of detail and precision. Nothing. For sure, the experience itself is different to a loudspeaker, but in absolute terms headphones certainly win on consistency, detail and microdynamic resolution.

* disclaimer: I have never heard any £50,000+ loudspeaker, so it's possible that if one is willing to spend that sort of money one could find a speaker which can match the HD800 in detail terms - but I would qualify that as being conditional on having a totally optimised listening environment, near-field listening and all of the careful attention-to-detail required of amps, mains, etc.

All in my experience and opinion, of course.

 

[nonsupremous]

It's hard to really compare the 2 equally. I would say in most cases, if you used speakers straight from a receiver...no amps, pre amps, EQ's or anything else. All things being equal, dollar for dollar the headphones will win. But speakers are like headphones...if you don't have the right source driving them, they are lifeless and dull. You also really need to take the time to set up your speakers properly. Makes a huge difference from a decent speaker set up.

That said, if you have an endless supply of money, you can buy speakers for 1 million dollars each. The system you would have to have to bring a speaker like that to life would probably cost 6 figures or more. I would think it's safe to say that most of us here will never be in the position to get that particular system. =) I know I never will be!!

For me personally I have a decent mid range set of speakers with a very good sub. But generally speaking I prefer my headphones to those speakers because I get a much more intimate experience with headphones. Music comes to life when its in your head like that. I have friends who think I'm a moron for liking headphones over speakers. It's a great topic to debate.

 

[wharfrat1]

I do like speakers, and I have a solid (not great) setup in my enterainment room (read basement). But since I've found highend headphone listening there is no going back. Add to it that I have a 3 month old and a 2 year old, an by the time we get them to bed at 8, a speaker rig doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

With my HP setup, I can comfortably sit in the recliner in my office and be transported away. After years of loving music, I never thought I would have this kind of rediscovery, but it's been going on now for over 2 years and keeps getting better and better. Maybe when the kids get older I'll invest more in speakers, but I won't ever move away from headphones.

 

[etiolate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I prefer to keep heart attacks and music seperate.

pansy