[Beagle]

the discussion/debate of burn in outside of the sound science forum being deemed off-topic by the forum moderators is real

Fascinating.

 

[MRHiFiReviews]

Well thank you for killing my heart with excitement.
Coming from you that sounds so promising and I definitely gotta try and make it a goal to get myself a pair of these. Also my friend. Are you finding the leather pads the go to pads for now? I imagine the leather pads delivering the low end a bit more.
Suede and alcantara kinda tighten things up usually in the treble.

I definitely prefer the leather pads for a tighter bass signature, better vocals in the mid-range and better staging.

 

[MRHiFiReviews]

I agree with your point about familiarity - often underestimated as a factor, I think, in all aspects of audio. One other point which I meant to mention earlier is that, with phones, it's clear that placement on one's head may affect sound - and it's very hard to be precise about this. I would think the undeniable margin of uncertainty in this respect makes theories about burn in even less interesting than they might otherwise be.

I agree with you, placement and positioning of the drivers over your ears will noticeably change the sound. Either way, back to the headphones my intent wasn't to get us off topic.

 

[jamesjames]

I agree with you, placement and positioning of the drivers over your ears will noticeably change the sound. Either way, back to the headphones my intent wasn't to get us off topic.

FWIW I don't actually think you took us off topic. Your earlier post was apparently setting out Yamaha's own 'information' about the phones which are indeed the subject of this topic. It's hard to see how that could be criticized. And I think it's then fair enough for others to comment on what Yamaha is saying about its own product. This wasn't, as is sometimes the case, some untethered free-for-all about a never-ending controversy - which moderators rightly (in my view) characterize as off topic.

 

[up late]

Fascinating.

and i appreciate you

 

[up late]

I agree with you, placement and positioning of the drivers over your ears will noticeably change the sound. Either way, back to the headphones my intent wasn't to get us off topic.

just to clarify, i wasn't referring to your post but to some of the posts that followed it, which were starting to take the thread off topic. referring to yamaha's recommendation to burn-in the yh-5000se and your own experience with it is on topic but contending "that speaker 'burn-in' is a myth" is not. glad you're enjoying your yh-5000se.

 

[Strayngs]

UPS has been making me wait forever for the Yammy. It was supposed to be here Tuesday and now it shows it'll be Friday before I get it.

 

[jamesjames]

just to clarify, i wasn't referring to your post but to some of the posts that followed it, which were starting to take the thread off topic. referring to yamaha's recommendation to burn-in the yh-5000se and your own experience with it is on topic but contending "that speaker 'burn-in' is a myth" is not. glad you're enjoying your yh-5000se.

With great respect I think you're wrong. These are both contentions - one happens to be from the manufacturer. When it's suggested in effect that one needn't worry too much about the sound in the shop because it will sound better when you get home I think we are into territory where a response is reasonable.

EDIT
My language was no more categorical than the initial post. And it was prefaced with an explicit statement that it was offered as an alternative perspective.

 

[MRHiFiReviews]

It's all good. I think we are good to move forward @jamesjames. How many on the thread are fellow owners of the Yamaha YH5Kse? I know @HiFiDJ is. We have been discussing the headphones a bunch lately. I am also curious to hear about those owners, what are your audio chains and if you have found the sound synergy you are looking for.

 

[MRHiFiReviews]

UPS has been making me wait forever for the Yammy. It was supposed to be here Tuesday, and now it shows it'll be Friday before I get it.

Congrats are almost in order.

 

[up late]

With great respect I think you're wrong. These are both contentions - one happens to be from the manufacturer. When it's suggested in effect that one needn't worry too much about the sound in the shop because it will sound better when you get home I think we are into territory where a response is reasonable.

EDIT
My language was no more categorical than the initial post. And it was prefaced with an explicit statement that it was offered as an alternative perspective.

i don't want to derail this thread by having a disagreement with you about what constitutes an off-topic discussion. the difference between @MRHiFiReviews post and yours is one of context. his post referred to his own burn-in experience with the yh-5000se - the topic of this thread. he also included yamaha's recommendation with regard to the burn-in of headphones and earphones in his post. whereas you replied to his post by suggesting "that speaker 'burn-in' is a myth" per se, which is off topic in my view and i think that the moderators would agree. happy to take this offline if you wish to continue the discussion.

 

[jamesjames]

i don't want to derail this thread by having a disagreement with you about what constitutes an off-topic discussion. the difference between @MRHiFiReviews post and yours is one of context. his post referred to his own burn-in experience with the yh-5000se - the topic of this thread. he also included yamaha's recommendation with regard to the burn-in of headphones and earphones in his post. whereas you replied to his post by suggesting "that speaker 'burn-in' is a myth" per se, which is off topic in my view and i think that the moderators would agree. happy to take this offline if you wish to continue the discussion.

Well, I think we are having a disagreement - but happy to leave it there.

 

[doctorK53]

Ok friends! This will all be part of a follow up video on our TSAV YT channel however I wanted to share some more of my findings after receiving my personal pair purchased with my own money.

So I am not going to try to convince anyone who doesn't believe in burn in that it is real however of all the headphones I have personally purchased these headphones did require some burn in for the drivers to settle down. I am not talking about brain burn in either as my initial thoughts and impressions were on our store demo pair which had been burned in for over 100 hours prior to receiving them. With so many conflicting impressions on these headphones I had a feeling that burn in was a real thing with them as well as giving them proper current.

I can say my headphones are approaching around 100 hours now and the audible issues I heard with the bass, mids, and treble have all settled into what I heard with the store demo pair I gave my impressions on which was the pair that made me want to buy these headphones in the first place. They are not Harman Curve tuned so if you are looking for a headphone that follows the harman curve these will not be it.

However I feel they have one of the most unique and special presentations that is so addictive to listen too once they get proper burn in time. Yamaha themselves recommend a minimum of 40 hours of burn in before any judgement be made on the sound quality. I think it's safer to say 80-100 hours.

From Yamaha:

"WHY DO A BURN-IN?​

While not a requirement, burning in your headphones or earbuds will help provide an optimal listening experience. Here’s why. Each individual headphone/earbud within a pair consists of an outer shell, magnet, diaphragm and coil. These internal components make up something called a driver, which is what produces the sound that is sent into your ear canal.

These drivers (sometimes known as transducers) are the same as what you find in speakers, only smaller. Their function is to take electrical energy and transform it into kinetic energy via the cone (or dome) of the speaker they are attached to. There are two connection points: the “Surround,” which attaches the frame of the driver to the cone, and the “Spider,” which is the flexible part underneath the cone that keeps the coil centered in the magnet structure. Once those two connection points are burned-in, they loosen and allow the driver to move in and out more freely. The audio quality will likely be noticeably better once the burn-in process is complete, though the improvement is generally gradual."

Link to the article. So give them some time and you will be rewarded. We should see some legit measurements soon for those of you that love measurements. More to come. Have a great week!

Very happy to see another owner of YH-5000SE in this thread.
Here is my comments for burn-in in my second impression post:

I wrote the performance was seemingly stable after 10+ hours in my previous post. I should correct the statement. It changed drastically after 100 hours. In general, the sound shifted from lean to bold, from revealing to forgiving. The treble was harsh in the first 10 hours, though, the harshness disappeared soon. After two months (= 100 hrs), the sound image turned bigger. E.g., a solo violin on the stage appeared as a small dot at first, but now it is a larger circle. More presence. Vocals came a bit closer to me. The dependency on the source chain was a bit relaxed. At first streaming by a smartphone with Bluetooth connection felt empty, but now it is so-so and enough to enjoy videos.
From the beginning, they had good resolution, separation, and sound imaging. Its very high performance in reproducing natural sound images has been stable since the open-box to now. My priority for audio gear is an orchestra in concert halls. At the sheet of a good concert hall I can listen to the united sound of many instruments on the stage as an organism, while if I focus on a specific player, it is also possible to pick it up and enjoy his/her unique skill in detail (which psychologists call cocktail party effect). YH-5000SE makes this experience at a high level. I have not found changes in frequency balance. Crisp highs, clear mids, and tight lows.

Since its first appearance in September 2022, I have done regular searches in google and twitter for YH-5000SE to find information mainly in Japanse. I have found lots of users, audio critics, and shops said the headphones change drastically through burn-in for a few hundred hours. In official Japanse sources of Yamaha, the engineers have never mentioned burn-in. (instead, they often point out sensitivity to the chain).

 

[jrkong]

It's all good. I think we are good to move forward @jamesjames. How many on the thread are fellow owners of the Yamaha YH5Kse? I know @HiFiDJ is. We have been discussing the headphones a bunch lately. I am also curious to hear about those owners, what are your audio chains and if you have found the sound synergy you are looking for.

I've been using a modest (Mass)Drop chain so far and it's been doing great so far. I need to poach one of the tube amps my lil brother is borrowing from me to test how well they respond to that. The Drop amps (789 and the HO150X) have a nice cool tone when used with the YH-5000SE which push the vocals further back while I got a warmer much more engaging and intimate experience when I was putting my Questyle M15 through the wringer. I'm not sure which I prefer yet but the YH-5000SE are definitely sensitive enough to the chain for differences to be immediately noticeable to my ears which was a first for me. That said, I'm definitely looking forward to testing other chains with them once I've got the cash to do so.

Somewhat off topic but to other owners of the YH-5000SE, does anyone else notice the earpads have a tendency to roll inward with the leather pads? They kind of remind me of the pads on Dan Clark headphones in that respect but I'd love to know if it's just my pair or if this is something that happens because of the earpad design. I know this probably won't happen for a long time if at all but I'd love to see some third party earpads for the YH-5000SE.

 

[doctorK53]

Yamaha Japan posted a new article featuring its flagship grand concert piano CFX and YH-5000SE.
https://www.yamaha.com/ja/about/stories/007_02/

In the article, Mr. Kobayashi, the development team manager, said their next goal is to make the headphones' product life as long as possible.
Here is a translation of that part:

Some people who are financially unable to afford them now may be able to afford them in a few years' time, but it would be meaningless if the product doesn't exist when they think, 'Okay, I'll buy them'. In fact, at the exhibition in Japan, there was a young customer who said, "I was really impressed with the YH-5000SE, but I don't have the money to buy it right now." We have worked hard to bring this product to the world, so we want to make its life cycle as long as possible. I think it is essential to listen to customers' opinions and continue to make improvements to make a long-lasting product (Kobayashi).

Mr. Hadano mentioned they hope to make a users' community. (I think this thread is exactly such a community if Yamaha official joins)

We want to create a connection between the customers who choose the YH-5000SE and Yamaha, and between fans of the YH-5000SE. The customers, who are maniacs in a sense, must be very particular about the sound. Also, as we discovered from participating in exhibitions in Japan and abroad, there are still people for whom these headphones stick. That's why we want to provide a meeting place for people who like this kind of pointy product and allow them to talk about the YH-5000SE and the true sound as much as they want.