[waynes world]

  Well, after reading Brooko's encyclopedic review on the X3 II, I can say I'm excited about the chance to preview the player.  But I will admit that I am more than a bit intimidated by his review.  I guess there is no reason why I should have to try to match his review in depth and scope: I can easily just refer to his review for all the product details.  I suppose the best thing I can do is to try to honestly compare the sound  quality between the X3 II and the various Xuelin players.  The unfortunate truth is that the Xuelin players can't match the functionality or file support of the X3 II.  But, I suppose there are at least a few people out there (like me), who are content with simplistic UI/frimware as long as they get the sound they like...  Maybe a few more messages to Xuelin in Chinese....?? will get them more serious about firmware updates....

 
I meant to respond to this earlier, but I don't blame you for being intimidated to follow his review - that thing was encyclopedic lol! But you always communicate very useful information, so I'm sure that "less will be more" or at least "less will be just fine" in your case!

 

[Psychonautic]

Can you tell me will IHIFI 800 be a good pair to my Unique Melody Merlin earphones?
 
I doubt because of low imperdance and hybrid construction of them.
Maybe somebody even tested this pair and can give any impressions?
 

 

[jdog]

  Can you tell me will IHIFI 800 be a good pair to my Unique Melody Merlin earphones?
 
I doubt because of low imperdance and hybrid construction of them.
Maybe somebody even tested this pair and can give any impressions?
 

Well, I certainly do not know for sure, but I would love to give your Unique Melody Merlin earphones a listen on the iHiFi 800.  I have reviewed the specs on your IEMs this AM.  I don't have any hybrid IEMs, but I do have the TTPOD 1E (dual dynamic drivers) which has the same impedance as your Merlins.  The TTPOD 1E pairs well with the iHiFi 800; the iHiFi 800 is a very neutral DAP and many people feel it lacks bass.  Therefore, I have found that my IEMs that are on the warmer side pair nicely with the 800.  The bass on the 800 is punchy and clear and it does not impose on the midrange.  I have found that IEMs that support/enhance bass and that have good treble extension pair the best with the iHiFi 800.   I do have the Westone 2 and 4 IEMs (both with balanced armatures) and the sound quality is good, but I do prefer IEMs with dynamic drivers with the 800 because I feel the bass sounds better and the soundstage tends to be wider.  What source(s) are you currently using with your Merlins?  

 

[jdog]

Here is my brief review of the X3 2nd Gen player as it compares to the iHiFi 800.  Although I prefer the sound quality of the iHiFi 800 and I am very happy with it overall, the X3 2nd Gen player is a very good DAP for the price.  Hopefully, someone (anyone) from Xuelin will take a peek at this thread and make some improvements in the iHiFi 800 thru firmware updates.  At the very least, I would like to see gapless playback, better/more inclusive file format support (including cue support), and improved R/L balance control.  I know for some that a customized graphic equalizer function would be appreciated.  These options (and more) are all obtainable, Xuelin just needs to put more effort into their firmware development... and yes, I have e-mailed them several times with these requests.  If any other Xuelin owners would like to send an e-mail to Xuelin requesting firmware updates for the 960, 812v2, 800 or the 770s, then here is the e-mail address:  sxj1974@163.com.  Thanks.
 
A Brief Review of the FiiO X3 2^nd Generation DAP with Comparisons to the Xuelin iHiFi 800.
Firstly, I would like to thank Mr. James Chung for allowing this preview of FiiO’s new X3 2^nd Generation DAP.  I would also like to thank “Joe Bloggs” for coordinating the world preview tour, and his help in the Head Fi.org forums.  As directed by the folks at FiiO, this review has been done on one of the pre-production units of the X3 2^nd Gen DAP; and it was loaned out to us for free, except for the cost of postage to the next reviewer.  The information in this review is based on my experience with the loaner X3 2^nd Gen model and my Xuelin iHiFi 800 that I purchased with my own funds. 
Some Brief Remarks about the FiiO X3 2^nd Generation Player.
This is my first experience with any of the FiiO DAPs.  Prior to this opportunity, I had not listened to any of the FiiO DAPs, so I really do not know how the new X3 2^nd Gen compares to the first generation X3, the X1 or the X5.  Therefore, I did not have any previous real-life biases or assumptions of this player.  There are (as of this writing) 2 very complete (ie, encyclopedic) reviews of the X3 2^nd Gen by Brooko and Twister 6, and these reviews discuss the X3 2^nd Gen in much detail and offer comparisons to the X1, 1^st Gen X3 and X5.  I will not try to duplicate their work in my review.  These reviews can be found here:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-x3-2nd-gen-ultraportable-hi-res-dap.
After being able to assess the X3 2^nd Gen DAP in my review period, I can easily say that it is an outstanding music player.  It is quite attractive and is solidly built.  The functionality, file format support and firmware are all very impressive.  I have been impressed by the options that this player offers in functionality.  Not only does it serve as a high-quality music player, but it also can serve as a stand-alone DAC.  In addition to a headphone-out port, it also has a port for line out/coaxial out functions.  While the X3 2^nd Gen does not have any built-in memory, it does have a single microsd slot that is currently able to support up to 128 gb cards.  It also supports OTG (on-the-go) usb devices. 
The file format support is very impressive; it supports both lossless (including high resolution FLAC files, WAV, WMA, ALAC, APE, and DSD) and lossy file (eg, MP3, AAC) formats.  In addition, the files can be listed as individual songs, by albums, by artists, by genre and by personal favorites.  The player also supports playlists.
The UI and firmware for the X3 2^nd Gen are also quite impressive; I did not encounter any significant firmware bugs during my time with the player.  I must admit that when I first received the player, there seemed to be some difficulty with the volume control buttons, because when I would press them to increase/decrease volume, the buttons did not respond properly.  However, after the first day, the volume buttons worked properly, and I had no further problems with them.  Although I am not a big fan of scroll wheel navigation, the X3 2^nd Gen appears to have a fairly decent one; as others have pointed out, however, one click of the wheel does not always result in 1 advancement on the screen.  A couple of the functions that I really like on the X3 2^nd Gen are gapless playback, resume play, and automatic pause when the earphone plug is removed from its port.  The gapless playback worked very well with my files.  I was happy to see a 10-band graphic equalizer, high/low gain “switch”, and R/L balance control.  The user is also offered several options to unlock the key pad.  Please refer to the extensive reviews by Brooko and Twister 6 for more detailed information re: features of the X3 2^nd Gen.
There are only a few areas where I could think of any constructive criticisms.  The first has to do with the Theme selections on the player.  Some of the theme colors (in my opinion) on the pre-production model are just not attractive at all, and others could benefit from more contrast between lettering and background to make it easier to see which line you are currently on.  The other issue I have involves the placement of the On/Off and Volume buttons on the upper left side panel of the player.  As a right-handed person, I hold the player in my left hand and use my right hand to operate the scroll wheel and front-panel buttons.  As I hold the player in my left hand, my left thumb is on or around the On/Off and Volume buttons. Many times when I was placing/replacing my earphone plug into the HO port, I found that I had inadvertently pressed one of these buttons in the process.  This is minor issue, but certainly something I would have to get used to.
Xuelin iHiFi 800 DAP
Please refer to this thread for more detailed information on the iHiFi 800: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755399/xuelin-ihifi-800-a-brief-introduction.
The iHiFi 800 was released by Xuelin in February 2015.  The player is a bit of a diversion for Xuelin in terms of hardware and form factor.   All of Xuelin’s other current players use Wolfson DACs (960s, 812v2, and 770 have Wolfson 8740 and the 770C has Wolfson 8718).  The 800 uses the Sabre ESS9018K2M DAC.  All the current Xuelin DAPs use Rockchip processors.  The 800 has three LME 47926 opamps and uses the OPA1662 as its LPF.   Compared to the other Xuelin players, the iHiFi 800 is a neutral sounding DAP.  In regards to form factor, the 800 is quite a bit smaller than the 960 and 812v2.  The 800 measures 100 x 49 x 16 mm and weighs about 120 gms, while the 960 measures 110 x 70 x 26 mm and weighs about 300 gms.   On the other hand, the 770s resemble an iPod Touch and weigh 103 gms.  All in all, the iHiFi 800 is a solidly built, high-quality DAP.  It is an attractive player with sturdy aluminum alloy casing that comes in either black or silver color versions.   It has 8 gb of built-in memory storage and a single microsd card slot that supports up to 128 gb cards.  It does not support OTG devices.  The iHiFi 800 currently sells for ~$250 US (price includes standard shipping).

 FiiO X3 2nd Gen (L), Xuelin iHiFi 800 (C), and Xuelin iHiFi 770 (R)
 
FiiO X3 2^nd Gen vs.  Xuelin iHiFi 800
For the remainder of my review, I will tend to focus on functionality, file format support, firmware, and sound quality between these 2 players.   I have included several pictures that show the X3 2^nd Gen and the iHiFi 800 side-by-side.  In all pictures, the FiiO X3 is on the left and the Xuelin iHiFi 800 in on the right.
Front view
 
Bottom panel view
Top panel view
Left side panel view
Right side panel view
Back view
 
Well, when it comes to functionality, the X3 2^nd Gen appears to offer more than the iHiFi 800.  The X3 can function as a usb DAC and has both line out/coax out in addition to headphone out.  The 800 does not function as a stand-alone DAC, and while it has a line out, it does not have coax out.  The X3 supports in-line headphone remote, whereas the 800 does not. The X3 supports OTG usb devices whereas the 800 does not.  Both players have a single microsd card slot and both currently support up to 128 gb cards.  The 800 does have 8 gb of on-board memory storage, whereas the X3 has no on-board memory.  Both have high/low gain options. The battery life on the players appears to be similar, somewhere between 10 and 12 hrs.
The X3 has much better file format support than the 800.  The X3 2^nd Gen easily handles 24/192 FLAC, AAC, ALAC, along with WAV, MP3 and lower resolution FLAC files and also has native DSD decoding.  The 800 currently does not support high resolution FLAC files, AAC or ALAC files and does not have native DSD decoding.  The X3 offers gapless playback, whereas the 800 does not.  Neither player offers cue support.
The X3 2^nd Gen easily bests the iHiFi 800 in firmware development.  The firmware on the 800 is currently somewhat simplistic in comparison to the X3.  FiiO appears to have literally adopted many of the more popular features from Rockbox and adapted them to the X3 2^nd Gen.  Needless to say, I am quite impressed.  However, when it comes to navigation through the UI to access all these nice features, I’m not sure FiiO comes out on top.  Of course, this will be very dependent on an individual user’s preferences.  Navigation for the X3 2^nd Gen primarily uses a combination of a scroll wheel and 4 physical buttons on the front of the player.  Volume control and on/off buttons are on the upper left side of the X3.  Navigation for the 800 is thru a set of 7 physical buttons on the front of the player; on/off and volume control buttons are included in the front buttons.  For “in-pocket” use the 800 has separate “pause/off”, “forward” and “reverse” buttons along the upper right side panel.   I much prefer the button control/navigation of the 800 myself, but I am sure others may prefer the scroll wheel layout of the X3.  I do have to say that the scroll wheel on the X3 works pretty well, but there is some extra play in the wheel that can be a bit frustrating at times.   I also find the volume control buttons on the front of the 800 to be more convenient/easier to use than the volume control buttons on the upper left side of the X3.
Well, despite all its apparent short-comings in comparison to the X3 2^nd Gen, as it stands now, I do believe the iHiFi 800 has better overall sound quality than the X3 2^nd Gen.  I reached this conclusion after 4 days of intensive comparison between the 2 players.   For the most part, I found more differences in the players when I used IEMs with dynamic drivers, and the sound quality was more similar when I used IEMs with balanced armatures.  I do not currently own any hybrid IEMs, so I cannot comment on these.  For the most part, I preferred IEMs with dynamic drivers with these 2 players, because the sound stage with both players appeared to be a bit narrower with BA IEMs.  FiiO has since reported that some modifications will be made in sound prior to general release of the X3 2^nd Gen, so I have no idea how my current comparisons will hold up over time.   Let me just say that the X3 2^nd Gen is a nice sounding DAP, and in no way do I want anyone reading this review to infer that the sound quality is not good.  The differences between the 2 players are all relative and my conclusions are based on my own preferences.  Before I get into the discussion of sound quality, one of the strongest attributes of the 800 is its absolute black background.  I hear no hiss between songs, and there are no pops/clicks when the player is turned on/off or between songs.  The black background (in my opinion) gives the music better definition, body and dimension.  The X3 has a dark background as well; although I did not hear any hiss with any of my earphones, the player does have subtle clicks/pops when it is powered on/off and between songs (except when gapless playback is used).
When it comes to sound quality, both players have similar sound stages in terms of width.  The most significant difference between these 2 players is in bass presentation and vocals.  The 800 has a more neutral presentation and the X3 has a warmer presentation.  While the bass on the 800 is less in amount when compared to the X3, it is better in quality.  The bass on the 800 is punchier and more clear/detailed; in comparison, the bass on the X3 is a bit heavier (think thud instead of punch) and slightly fuzzy.  With the earphones I prefer to use with the 800 (YinJW ie800), the bass on the X3 creeps into/distracts from the midrange.   The vocals on the 800 are very, very nice, and this is a major strength of all the Xuelin players I have.  The vocals on the 800 have better clarity and dimension than the vocals on the X3, and as a result, I find the vocals to be more “musical” and life-like on the 800.  The bass quantity of the X3 can be reduced by using “cooler” earphones (like the Ostry KC06), but this does not really improve the vocals in my opinion. 
The 800 has better separation of low, mid and high frequencies than the X3, and this results in better clarity of detail and improved instrument separation/placement. 
(As a complete aside, for those readers who have the Xuelin 770/770C and Ostry KC06 IEMs, the sound quality of the X3 2^ndGen using the KC06 IEMs is very similar to the sound quality using the A HO port of the 770/770C (more neutral HO) with the KC06 IEMs; except the X3 2^nd Gen has a wider sound stage and the 770s have slightly better vocals.)
Both players had plenty of power to drive all my IEMs; so I would personally not routinely use a separate headphone amp with either one.  I did try out both players using their lines-out with my Neco Soundlab v2 amp (with dual AD8610 opamps).  I could not really appreciate any real improvements in sound quality with the 800, but the sound quality of the X3 appeared to improve.  With the amp, the bass on the X3 was reduced/more refined and there was better separation between lows, mids and highs.  The vocals on the X3 seemed to benefit with the amp as well.
Final Thoughts
Overall, the FiiO X3 2^nd Gen is a very nice DAP.  The obvious strengths of this player are its functionality, file format support and firmware.  The sound quality is quite good, and with properly paired earphones, the user should be quite satisfied.  At its price point (approx $200 US), there appear to be few, if any, other players at present that can match its overall value.   I predict the FiiO X3 2^nd Gen will be very well received when it is released for general sale.  It is clear to me that FiiO has set a new standard for DAPs at this price point, and other manufacturers will need to step it up quite a bit to remain competitive.  I certainly wish FiiO good luck and want to thank them again for this opportunity to review their new, high-quality DAP. 


 

 

[sbose]

@jdog
very nice review.
can you please share your thoughts on between 960 duel core and X3ii.

 

[waynes world]

  Here is my brief review of the X3 2nd Gen player as it compares to the iHiFi 800.  

 
Who are you kidding - that was awesome! Really great writeup jdog. That must have taken quite a while to do.
 
The X3ii looks like a real winner at the $200 price point. If I wasn't so happy with my 770, I'd seriously consider getting it. As it stands, I'll just continue lusting over the X7, (although at $699, I don't know if I can really bring myself to getting it).

 

[jdog]

@sbose and Waynes World,
 
Thanks for reading and the compliments.  The new X3 is nice, but I really feel that the sound quality of the Xuelin players is better.  The new X3 cannot compete at all with the 960 dual-core in terms of sound quality; the 960 has a much broader sound stage and has much more definition and clarity in all frequencies (highs, mids and lows).  The 960 is on the warm side (compared to the 800), but the bass is very well defined and clear, not thick or muddy/hazy.  The 960 has much better separation of bass, mids and treble; and instrument separation and placement are very much better than on the X3.  The vocals on the 960 are so much better on the 960, with more dimension and life-like feel.  Although the rockboxed 960 does not support DSD formats, the rockboxed 960 has everything else (and more) that is available on the FiiO X3 2nd Gen.  Since the rockbox process is completely reversible, I would highly encourage anyone with the 960 dual-core to at least give it a try.  The process has not altered the sound quality of the player and it offers many desirable options (at least for me).  I also rockboxed my 960 modified and for some reason, the program was a bit more finnicky; but with the 960 dual core, the rockbox process has been very stable.   As I said before, I e-mailed Xuelin all the files they would need to rockbox a 960 (dual-core) and hopefully they tried it out.  I do believe that FiiO studied the rockbox options and adapted them to the new X3.  The Xuelin players have the necessary harware for huge firmware upgrades, so I hope they will provide something meaningful in the near future...  If anyone needs access to the files needed for rockboxing the 960 dual-core, then just send a PM with your e-mail address and I will send along the files.  Sincerely, the only downside to rockboxing (with current files) is that you cannot use the 16 gb of on-board memory, but I have gotten around this by using 64 gb microsd card.

 

[waynes world]

jdog, if the 770 can ever be rockboxed, I'll be pretty damned happy.

Btw, I like to have my dap in a belt holster, so I like the 770's pause button on the top. It would be awesome if it also had volume control on the top, and beyond amazing if it also had skip/rewind buttons up there. But I dream!

 

[7cents]

  Here is my brief review of the X3 2nd Gen player as it compares to the iHiFi 800.  Although I prefer the sound quality of the iHiFi 800 and I am very happy with it overall, the X3 2nd Gen player is a very good DAP for the price.  Hopefully, someone (anyone) from Xuelin will take a peek at this thread and make some improvements in the iHiFi 800 thru firmware updates.  At the very least, I would like to see gapless playback, better/more inclusive file format support (including cue support), and improved R/L balance control.  I know for some that a customized graphic equalizer function would be appreciated.  These options (and more) are all obtainable, Xuelin just needs to put more effort into their firmware development... and yes, I have e-mailed them several times with these requests.  If any other Xuelin owners would like to send an e-mail to Xuelin requesting firmware updates for the 960, 812v2, 800 or the 770s, then here is the e-mail address:  sxj1974@163.com.  Thanks.
 

Thanks @jdog for excellent comparison, it'd be appreciated if you could do the same for the iHiFi 800 vs Colorfly C3 and/or C3+BH (sound wise, i.e. stage, vocal, bass, etc.)

 

[jdog]

  Thanks @jdog for excellent comparison, it'd be appreciated if you could do the same for the iHiFi 800 vs Colorfly C3 and/or C3+BH (sound wise, i.e. stage, vocal, bass, etc.)

Well, I compared the iHiFi 800 with the Colorfly C3 today.  Given the price difference between the C3 and the 800, I'm not sure it is really fair to compare the two, but here's my opinion.  Overall, the 800 is more neutral than the Colorfly C3, the C3 tends to be a little warmer.  The 800 has better treble extension and better separation of lows, mids and highs.  The bass on the 800 is punchier and more clear (sharper), whereas the bass on the C3 is a little heavier and slightly muddy (in comparison).  The highs on the 800 are more natural.  The width of the soundstage is similar on both (the 800's soundstage may be just a hair wider), but the 800 has better depth (provides better layering) and this gives better instrument separation/placement and more dimension to vocals.  The mids (including vocals) on the C3 are a bit recessed, whereas they are more forward on the 800.  The sound on the 800 has more clarity on mids and highs compared to the C3.  The 800 has an absolutely black background and there is no hiss or clicks between songs.  The C3 has a small amount of hiss and a small click between songs.  Adding the BH amp to the C3, increases the warmth of the C3 and might improve the width of the soundstage a little.  All in all, I feel the sound quality of the 800 is better than that of the C3.  I hope this helps.

 

[waynes world]

  Well, I compared the iHiFi 800 with the Colorfly C3 today.  Given the price difference between the C3 and the 800, I'm not sure it is really fair to compare the two, but here's my opinion.  Overall, the 800 is more neutral than the Colorfly C3, the C3 tends to be a little warmer.  The 800 has better treble extension and better separation of lows, mids and highs.  The bass on the 800 is punchier and more clear (sharper), whereas the bass on the C3 is a little heavier and slightly muddy (in comparison).  The highs on the 800 are more natural.  The width of the soundstage is similar on both (the 800's soundstage may be just a hair wider), but the 800 has better depth (provides better layering) and this gives better instrument separation/placement and more dimension to vocals.  The mids (including vocals) on the C3 are a bit recessed, whereas they are more forward on the 800.  The sound on the 800 has more clarity on mids and highs compared to the C3.  The 800 has an absolutely black background and there is no hiss or clicks between songs.  The C3 has a small amount of hiss and a small click between songs.  Adding the BH amp to the C3, increases the warmth of the C3 and might improve the width of the soundstage a little.  All in all, I feel the sound quality of the 800 is better than that of the C3.  I hope this helps.

 
So what you're saying is that even though the C3 costs way less than the 800, it sounds way better. Good to know!

Seriously, great impressions jdog - thanks!

 

[jdog]

@waynes world, 

 
I'm still trying to push Xuelin to upgrade firmware for all their players, but I think they must now just move my emails straight into the "trash bin"...  If I hear anything new or faintly positive from them, I'll let you all know...  I haven't seen any real effort being made to rockbox the 770's or the 800 yet, but there has at least been a small discussion about this on one of the Russian forums.  Maybe someone over in Russia will move on this eventually; the Rockbox of the 960 does really improve the value of the player.... 

 

[waynes world]

  @waynes world, 

 
I'm still trying to push Xuelin to upgrade firmware for all their players, but I think they must now just move my emails straight into the "trash bin"...  If I hear anything new or faintly positive from them, I'll let you all know...  I haven't seen any real effort being made to rockbox the 770's or the 800 yet, but there has at least been a small discussion about this on one of the Russian forums.  Maybe someone over in Russia will move on this eventually; the Rockbox of the 960 does really improve the value of the player.... 

 
I hear ya. When I first ordered the 770, I was scouring the web looking for rockboxing tidbits. If it's been done for the 960, it should be easy enough to get done for the 770.
 
It would be awesome, but tbh, I love the SQ of the 770, and I have gotten used to it's somewhat primitive UI, so I'm good. At least the 770 has "auto shutoff" and "resume play" that the C3 doesn't have, so I'm happy enough. I'm not sure I could handle how happy a rockboxed 770 would make me!

 

[jdog]

Well, speaking of firmware upgrades....  Xuelin now is announcing that there will be firmware upgrades for the 770s and the 960 sometime this month (April 2015).  The translation is a little hard to follow for all of the upgrades, but it looks like that the new firmwares for the 770s and 960 are being moved up to match the features already on the 800.  While this is good news, I hope they will continue to add more upgrades soon for all players, including the 800.  They do not give an exact date for the firmware release, so I will keep my eyes open and let you know...  They have also posted all the current firmware links for the 960, 770, 770c, 800 and 812v2....  To check this out go to i-hifi.com and look under the News and Events section....

 

[7cents]

  Well, I compared the iHiFi 800 with the Colorfly C3 today.  Given the price difference between the C3 and the 800, I'm not sure it is really fair to compare the two, but here's my opinion.  Overall, the 800 is more neutral than the Colorfly C3, the C3 tends to be a little warmer.  The 800 has better treble extension and better separation of lows, mids and highs.  The bass on the 800 is punchier and more clear (sharper), whereas the bass on the C3 is a little heavier and slightly muddy (in comparison).  The highs on the 800 are more natural.  The width of the soundstage is similar on both (the 800's soundstage may be just a hair wider), but the 800 has better depth (provides better layering) and this gives better instrument separation/placement and more dimension to vocals.  The mids (including vocals) on the C3 are a bit recessed, whereas they are more forward on the 800.  The sound on the 800 has more clarity on mids and highs compared to the C3.  The 800 has an absolutely black background and there is no hiss or clicks between songs.  The C3 has a small amount of hiss and a small click between songs.  Adding the BH amp to the C3, increases the warmth of the C3 and might improve the width of the soundstage a little.  All in all, I feel the sound quality of the 800 is better than that of the C3.  I hope this helps.

Thanks @jdog, it's really helpful and interesting that C3 is not too far behind in terms of sound quality.