I've owned various tube amps over the years and I've rolled the hell out of them. I've used everything from the cheapest tubes to the unobtanium tubes blessed by frozen unicorn tears.
My opinion of tubes has changed over the years.
Are there difference between tubes? Absolutely. Some are noisy. Some are quiet. Some have different timbre. Some have treble roll off or show the opposite peaky extension. Some have flabby bass or show the opposite tight and dry lower registers.
Can different complements of tubes have synergistic effects on the overall sound qualities of an amp? Also, absolutely yes.
However, while there are noticeable changes, I'd say that we greatly exaggerate the sonic differences between tubes. Maybe it's due to expectation bias. I'm not an audiologist or psychologist, so I can't tell for sure. But, I can say that when I remove my expectation bias and do some blind listening, I'm more likely to not notice large differences in tubes and have been known to get incorrect answers when asked to identify certain tubes.
Where am I going with this? I think amps retain their basic DNA no matter what tubes you roll into them. I think this is why makers like Jack Wu have no problem selling amps with the most basic Russian or Chinese tubes as stock because the amp sounds well within its intended sonic flavor. These makers rely on word of mouth advertising, so they can't afford missteps by putting out amps that sound bad. In other words, not only do they not care that you roll tubes or not, they are betting their bottom line on the end user not rolling tubes.
If one has the financial means to buy exotic unobtanium, I hope they do so and enjoy their amps to the highest possible levels. But, not being able to find or afford such exotic tubes doesn't diminish the quality of the amps or their overall ability to sing. Their makers know this, they will continue to make and sell these amps without any regard for the supply of unobtanium tubes, and I propose that more of us could be a bit more realistic in our own expectations as I have very stubbornly learned to do over the years. I'm perfectly happy with a $150 Schiit Vali 2+ with a $15 Russian tube. It's not all that different from my $2000 Trafomatic with rare 1970s Russian tubes and a snobby rectifier.
I've owned various tube amps over the years and I've rolled the hell out of them. I've used everything from the cheapest tubes to the unobtanium tubes blessed by frozen unicorn tears.
My opinion of tubes has changed over the years.
Are there difference between tubes? Absolutely. Some are noisy. Some are quiet. Some have different timbre. Some have treble roll off or show the opposite peaky extension. Some have flabby bass or show the opposite tight and dry lower registers.
Can different complements of tubes have synergistic effects on the overall sound qualities of an amp? Also, absolutely yes.
However, while there are noticeable changes, I'd say that we greatly exaggerate the sonic differences between tubes. Maybe it's due to expectation bias. I'm not an audiologist or psychologist, so I can't tell for sure. But, I can say that when I remove my expectation bias and do some blind listening, I'm more likely to not notice large differences in tubes and have been known to get incorrect answers when asked to identify certain tubes.
Where am I going with this? I think amps retain their basic DNA no matter what tubes you roll into them. I think this is why makers like Jack Wu have no problem selling amps with the most basic Russian or Chinese tubes as stock because the amp sounds well within its intended sonic flavor. These makers rely on word of mouth advertising, so they can't afford missteps by putting out amps that sound bad. In other words, not only do they not care that you roll tubes or not, they are betting their bottom line on the end user not rolling tubes.
If one has the financial means to buy exotic unobtanium, I hope they do so and enjoy their amps to the highest possible levels. But, not being able to find or afford such exotic tubes doesn't diminish the quality of the amps or their overall ability to sing. Their makers know this, they will continue to make and sell these amps without any regard for the supply of unobtanium tubes, and I propose that more of us could be a bit more realistic in our own expectations as I have very stubbornly learned to do over the years. I'm perfectly happy with a $150 Schiit Vali 2+ with a $15 Russian tube. It's not all that different from my $2000 Trafomatic with rare 1970s Russian tubes and a snobby rectifier.
Agree completely that you can get very good sound from inexpensive tubes. At the same time, you will find that most people on these threads end up using different tubes than the factory supplied ones. The tubes the amps come with are good, and selected with care by the amp manufacturers, but IMHO the majority of people end up with different tubes because to many people they sound better. It does not mean expensive tubes necessarily.
The real reason why manufacturers use certain new production tubes instead of NOS is because they need a reliable large supply of tubes for their production, and the NOS tubes many end up with are not available in the quantities required. As an individual owner you just need a pair or so, whereas the manufacturer needs hundreds.
I have a sub $400 Russian hybrid tube amp that uses $2-5 tubes and it sounds almost as good as my US boutique $2000 tube amp - it certainly is just as enjoyable.
Everybody listens differently - some people listen to their amps and others to the music. I do both (at different times) and cannot say that one way is better than the other. After spending a lot of time with certain tube combinations I just know that this combination ends up grating on my nerves in the long run, even if it sounded great initially, and other tube combinations continue to please without any irritations.
Certainly there is expectation bias, but that goes away after spending a lot of time with the equipment.
Another thought: For a novice the tubes look pretty much the same (except for size), and I think that the prices on certain tubes have been jacked up by unscrupulous sellers because they are easy to identify for an inexperienced person:
Examples are red base, smoked glass, curved base or a very prominent getter flashing etc. Obviously, the bigger the tube, the better the sound (not true). And even though older tubes many times sound better than new production, it is not always the case. Then there are dishonest sellers that advertise tubes at fantasy prices in the thousands....
In summary: When it comes to tubes, price and sound have very little correlation. And remember:
TRUST YOUR EARS!