[jc9394]

I tried the SP extreme in the past and agree it is a great amp but not as impressive as the WA22 I have. It maybe the source or the tubes or even the upgrade parts that I have in my WA22. The 6080 tube is great for JH but I think you needs the 5998 or 7236 to probably drives the LCD-2. What really shines with JH13 is GEC 6AS7G, TS BGRP, and EML 5U4G while with LCD-2 I prefer TS5998, TS BGRP/TS 6F8G, and EML 5U4G.

 

[jc9394]

^^^ my opinion may not valid, I'm a Woo fanboy after all.

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

I have not posted here before. I have a Woo 22 for over a year, done a fair bit of tube rolling, currently using Bendix 6080s, RCA 6SN7s, and a Sophia 274B rectifier. I have tried other combinations of NOS tubes. Tube rolling doesn't seem to make much difference.

In any case, my rebuilt Singlepower Extreme crushes the Woo as far as listening pleasure, even with low impedance headphones like the JH16s and the LCD-2s, where an OTL like the Extreme should typically fall short. The Extreme has a harmonic richness that makes the Woo 22 seem sterile and boring. (Not sure what amps others were listening to before buying the 22 that leads them to describe the Woo as euphonic.)

I e-mailed Kevin Gilmore a few times for help in repairing my Singlepower and he agreed that the Woo 22 is somewhat lacking and told me that he has asked Jack Wu multiple times to build an amp using the same schematic as the Extreme, obviously to no avail.

I agree that the Woo's build quality is great and would not recommend anyone buy a Singlepower amp.

So, what am I missing? What tubes really make the Woo 22 sound great?

Since you are quite satisfied with the rebuilt Singlepower Extreme and I desire a WA22, I propose we meet privately within the hour. Will send a PM...
 
...PM sent! Let's find that '22' a proper and loving home...

 

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

(Not sure what amps others were listening to before buying the 22 that leads them to describe the Woo as euphonic.)

 

As far as the WA22's reputation for being euphonic, that is in comparison to Woo's other amps, by Woo themselves.
 
Quote:

The WA22 is the only headphone amp that I've every tried and he Sennheiser HD 800s that I have are the only phones that I've ever tried. Having said that and FWIW, I don't think 6080 have enough power. I say try 5998 or 7236 for power tubes and Mullard ECC32s, Sylvania bad boys or TS 6SN7 black glass oval plates for drivers. EML 5U4G for rectifier.
P.S. it helps to feed the WA22 from a balanced source.

 

Definitely try a 7236 or 5998 (or an equivalent like the 2399) power tube, it makes all the difference with that amp. Another great driver tube is the Shuguang Treasure, in fact you can't go wrong with the tube upgrade options currently recommended by Woo (IMO).

 

[Xcalibur255]

Quote:

Yup, around 10-12 hours now, it starts to open a bit. I don't cook like Mike style, I cook it when I listen to it. This way I know the changes it does during cooking.

I do it this way too, although I'll let the amp idle a few times in the beginning to spare myself from NOS tube treble harshness if necessary.  My sin is that I tend to pass judgement on a tube before it is fully settled.  It seems like most of my 6SN7 have needed a full 150-200 hours to really come into their own which is always a surprise to me.  Perhaps the low operating points they run at in the WA6 prolongs this somewhat.
 

 

[Xcalibur255]

Quote:

So, what am I missing? What tubes really make the Woo 22 sound great?

I can't chime in on the power tube options, but I did want to say that if you have only ever tried the Sophia rectifier it would probably be good to experiment there a bit.  The Sophia has a pretty wide reputation for being a somewhat analytical sounding tube.  Also, and this is purely my personal opinion and nothing else, I think RCA 6SN7 don't sound all that good in my Woo.  The synergy is really not there.  It is possible to get them lush sounding, but at the expense of detail and depth.  The right Sylvania or Tung Sol, or any of the good British made tubes really seem to work better on Woo amps.

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

I do it this way too, although I'll let the amp idle a few times in the beginning to spare myself from NOS tube treble harshness if necessary.  My sin is that I tend to pass judgement on a tube before it is fully settled.  It seems like most of my 6SN7 have needed a full 150-200 hours to really come into their own which is always a surprise to me.  Perhaps the low operating points they run at in the WA6 prolongs this somewhat.
 

 
 
+1

(6SN7) Full 150-200 hours...
 

 

[Silent One]

 
Contact : . 
 
Just finished cleaning the pins on a few of my 6SN7 tubes and the adapters (6SN7 > 6DE7). A gentle filing, then hit it with some Deoxit Red followed by Deoxit Gold. I've long wondered if the bigger pins on the 6SN7 tubes might be better served if they were inserted directly into a 6SN7 teflon socket inside the amp with a resistor. The contact area of the pins on the 6DE7 pins/socket are so small. 
 
If there are gains to be had in this way, the question then becomes "Is it feasible to swap - will the gains outweigh the effort?"

 

[Xcalibur255]

If you are proposing permanently modding the amp with internal 6SN7 sockets, then I've thought about that myself.  However, I honestly can't see any problem with using the adapters long term, plus it gives you the option to go back to the stock tubes if you ever wanted/needed to.  The mod would likely hurt the resale value of the amp quite a bit as well.  The idea probably lends itself to the WA6 more than it does the SE, since Jack officially condones using the 6SN7 on the former but not the latter.
 
You don't have to put them in the amp to get teflon sockets though...... Glenn made me a pair of adapters that use the same style teflon socket as the amp itself and I love them.

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

If you are proposing permanently modding the amp with internal 6SN7 sockets, then I've thought about that myself.  However, I honestly can't see any problem with using the adapters long term, plus it gives you the option to go back to the stock tubes if you ever wanted/needed to.  The mod would likely hurt the resale value of the amp quite a bit as well.  The idea probably lends itself to the WA6 more than it does the SE, since Jack officially condones using the 6SN7 on the former but not the latter.
 
You don't have to put them in the amp to get teflon sockets though...... Glenn made me a pair of adapters that use the same style teflon socket as the amp itself and I love them.

Resale? I wasn't kiddin' when I posted earlier this year about stock tubes versus 6SN7 tubes - "I ain't never going back!"  

  Your point is well received, however. Currently, my amp is trade bait. Should I get employment soon we gonna keep it. If I don't make a jump at a WA22 in the near term, I'm gonna keep it as well. Because I love it and my fortunes will be better in time... 
 
I was thinking that the bigger pins might transfer better. And if they do, then no more dilly dallying around with adapters... give it to me , baby!  Lastly, if I don't see movement post Woo Audio's announcement next month, I'll just have Glenn hot-rod what I got. And maybe pick up a second 6SE and 'Block 'em! (mono blocks). I'll find a pre-amp somewhere in the listening room...
 
The horizon is a bit hazy, but I think I see a 300B amp somewhere in my future as well.
 

 

[jc9394]

 
Quote:

 
The horizon is a bit hazy, but I think I see a 300B amp somewhere in my future as well.  

That is not in my future that I can foreseen, I know I will get either an EAT or something that will empty my wallet faster than anything I have encountered...

 

[Clayton SF]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Audio Technica ATH-AD2000 and how it pairs with their Woo amp? I am looking into some headphones around the $800-$1K mark and came across these. It's just another phone to throw into the mix. Eek!

 

[jc9394]

Quote:

Does anyone have an opinion on the Audio Technica ATH-AD2000 and how it pairs with their Woo amp? I am looking into some headphones around the $800-$1K mark and came across these. It's just another phone to throw into the mix. Eek!

Get the LCD-2 and be done with it.  I owned the AD2000 and it is a great amp but I don't think the Woo is a great match, the only amp I love with AD2000 is ATH-HA5000.  Personally, I think it is more voiced to Asian vocals.

 

[Silent One]

 
 
Dilemma ~
 
I second jc9394's recommendation for Clayton SF to get the LCD-2 v2's and be done with it! Though I am honest, this might be viewed with a bit of suspicion from Clayton. Knowing of my prior lust to drop by and have a listen with the new spec'd Audez'e's (uh-oh!). Hopefully, someone else will step in and second jc9394's position.

 

[jc9394]

He don't have an excuse not to get the LCD-2 if his budget is $1000, Clayton already have the WA2, WA22, beta22, and LF.  Those amps all drives the LCD-2 perfectly well and probably are one of the best amp for LCD-2.