Why would those with HE-6 prefer speaker amps?
Jul 13, 2014 at 11:28 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 95

SilverEars

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Hi, I'm trying to understand the relationship between SPL and FR.  What is a typical SPL of speaker amps?  I'm trying to figure out why those that own HE-6 is prefering speaker amps.  
 
Here are HE-6's specs:
 
Impedance: 50 Ohm
Efficiency: 83.5 DB
 
Jul 13, 2014 at 12:38 PM Post #2 of 95
There's usually no relationship between SPL and FR (unless it's really, really, really messed up or you're kind of making some kind of analysis into some bizarre clipping / distortion mode when pushing it past what it can handle). If the FR changes at different SPL, you have something highly nonlinear on your hands.
 
Speaker amps don't produce vibrations and sound pressure levels, so that makes no sense. They're electronic amplifiers that can push certain power levels into speakers, which are the things making the sounds.
 
The loudness you get (in SPL) depends on how much power is delivered to the headphones and then the headphone sensitivity. The more power you deliver, the louder they get. The SPL can be directly calculated from the sensitivity and the power input level. For HE-6, that is literally a spec of 83.6 dB SPL given 1 mW input power. Supposing that figure is exact, you'd expect 93.6 dB SPL given 10 mW input power and 80.6 dB SPL give 0.5 mW input power, for example. For speakers you also need to figure out the distance from the listener to the speaker, but for headphones the distance should be (more or less) the same for every wearer so that's not really a consideration.
 
The amount of power delivered to the headphones depends on the capability of the amplifier and then some other factors. An amplifier is limited by the physical (electrical) parameters of the design and components, so different amplifiers will have different maximum power ratings of what it can handle cleanly before starting to clip. For a given amplifier, the maximum amount of power that can be delivered depends on the impedance of the load. Speaker amplifiers generally have higher maximum power ratings because—oversimplifying and glossing over transducer design for a bit—you need more power generally to fill a room than to fill the space between some headphones and your head. Of course. A lot of headphone amplifiers aren't capable of a clean 1 Watt or more into 50 ohms or so, while pretty much every speaker amplifier is.
 
Supposing we're talking about amplifiers operating within what they can actually handle, the actual amount of power delivered depends on the signal level sent to the amp (from the DAC or preamp), the amp gain, and the volume control. The speaker gain boosts up the signal level by some multiplicative factor greater than unity, while the volume control brings it back down if set to anything less than maximum. Generally, speaker amps tend to have higher gains because they more often need to be operating at higher volume levels. (the gain doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the device can handle whatever output level results from all the above though.)
 
Many headphone amps may not really be designed for the kind of power levels you need for listening to the HE-6 loudly, but some are. But as for why anybody likes anything, it's a combination of many factor, many of them having nothing to do with the electronics and the sound produced.
 
Jul 13, 2014 at 5:55 PM Post #3 of 95
I'm trying to figure out why those that own HE-6 is prefering speaker amps.  
 
 

I think you will get frustrated trying to figure that out.  speakers have to play a bunch louder than headphones and require usually 10's of watts to do their job.  Headphones need only a tiny fraction of a watt.  Having power you don't use accomplishes nothing.  These are people letting their hearing bias take control of their common sense.
 
Jul 13, 2014 at 6:52 PM Post #4 of 95
  I think you will get frustrated trying to figure that out.  speakers have to play a bunch louder than headphones and require usually 10's of watts to do their job.  Headphones need only a tiny fraction of a watt.  Having power you don't use accomplishes nothing.  These are people letting their hearing bias take control of their common sense.

 
+1. My favorite HE-6 headphone amp.
 

 
Jul 14, 2014 at 12:50 AM Post #5 of 95
   
+1. My favorite HE-6 headphone amp.
 

 
Are those silicon parts in the rectifier in the power supply of that tube amp!?! Oh the shame!
 
Cheers
 
Jul 14, 2014 at 8:57 AM Post #7 of 95
If you check my profile, you'll see that I fit in the latter category. But mostly I'd like to think i just have a geeky good sense of humor!

Cheers
 
Jul 14, 2014 at 12:35 PM Post #8 of 95
I think you will get frustrated trying to figure that out.  speakers have to play a bunch louder than headphones and require usually 10's of watts to do their job.  Headphones need only a tiny fraction of a watt.  Having power you don't use accomplishes nothing.  These are people letting their hearing bias take control of their common sense.
Yeah, that's it.
 
Jul 15, 2014 at 10:03 AM Post #9 of 95
  I think you will get frustrated trying to figure that out.  speakers have to play a bunch louder than headphones and require usually 10's of watts to do their job.  Headphones need only a tiny fraction of a watt.  Having power you don't use accomplishes nothing.  These are people letting their hearing bias take control of their common sense.

 
Yeah, that's it.

 
 
That's funny..
 
Here's my current headphone amp for my HE-6:
 
 

 
Jul 15, 2014 at 10:30 AM Post #11 of 95
I can't find it, but a few years ago I calculated out the amount of power it would take for the HE-6's to cause hearing damage within 30 seconds of listening (based on OSHA tables), and it was FAR less than these "zomg it needs a speaker amp!" guys suggest. 
 
I don't have the time to do the calc right now but, iirc, even 1 watt of power is beyond sufficient to handle even the sharpest, loudest recorded transient without a hint of clipping, at a base listening spl far in excess of what anyone would ever put themselves through
 
Jul 15, 2014 at 10:53 AM Post #13 of 95
Figuring out presentation with a formula would save us a ton of money. Loudness has always been a false prophet. Mental instability the crowning solution.
 
Jul 15, 2014 at 11:34 AM Post #14 of 95
  I can't find it, but a few years ago I calculated out the amount of power it would take for the HE-6's to cause hearing damage within 30 seconds of listening (based on OSHA tables), and it was FAR less than these "zomg it needs a speaker amp!" guys suggest. 
 
I don't have the time to do the calc right now but, iirc, even 1 watt of power is beyond sufficient to handle even the sharpest, loudest recorded transient without a hint of clipping, at a base listening spl far in excess of what anyone would ever put themselves through

 
A quick look says 115 dB SPL for 5 minutes. I don't know about a 30 seconds figure.
 
With HiFiMAN's spec of 83.5 dB SPL / 1 mW, 115 dB SPL would require 10^((115-83.5)/10) = 1412 mW = 1.4 W
 
InnerFidelity measured 19.69 mW for 90 dB SPL (even less sensitive than HiFiMAN's figure) so that'd be 19.69 * 10^((115-90)/10) = 6227 mW = 6.2 W
 
Anyway, 115 dB SPL peaks are a whole lot, but technically the front of some concerts with no hearing protection at peaks can definitely go over that... not that it's recommended at all.
 
Jul 15, 2014 at 3:55 PM Post #15 of 95
it is mostly time integrated dose that appears to do the damage - though high enough SPL will do irreversible damage in a single cycle
 
there are really fast dynamics in acoustic music - many sound pressure meter's "fast" response doesn't capture them so you will get fasley low estimates of instantaneous dynamic peaks of live performances
 
you have to balance the 2 perspectives the Headwize article http://headwize.com/?page_id=266 should be read for both perspectives - live music peaks and damage thresholds
 
and the OSHA standard's SPL may be too high - assume formerly accepted rate of hearing loss in industrial employment - EU standards for protection call for uniformly lower SPL
 

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