[swspiers]

 
I grasped that, but music and the equipment to play it with is a lot more than science. It has been a way of life since man invented the first musical instrument. Science describes measurements made on one or more epieces of equipment. But those measuring equipment cannot measure emotion, expression, and satisfaction. They can only measure voltage and current.

Not so much.  There is more to the science of audio than engineering and physics.  There are ways to measure emotion, expression, etc.  They are subjective-reporting for the most part, but they are measurable.  Even the logarythmic scale of measuring loudness, audibility, etc. are based on subjective measurement.
 
Any attempt to rely on one discipline of science vs. another is not objective.  But man, that's a heck of a lot of work and studying!
 
Anyway, the science of how electrons flow, frequency response, volume-matching etc. is serious stuff, and most likely completely accurate.  But add the science of perception to the mix, and it's something else entirely.
 
The electron- stuff is solid and reliable, with the added benefit of being replicable and predictable. The perception/mind stuff is still in its infancy.  Hence, these endlessly amusing debates that give me a decent distraction from the science and practice of addiction treatment (the therapeutic side, BTW).  Which is even younger than the perception stuff, and even more full of voodoo than audio hobbies.
 
Anyway, back to it guys.  This is fun reading!
 

 

[Grave]

The seven steps made me laugh. 

 

[vertical]

The seven steps made me laugh. 

Ditto

 

[bigshot]

  I grasped that, but music and the equipment to play it with is a lot more than science. It has been a way of life since man invented the first musical instrument. Science describes measurements made on one or more epieces of equipment. But those measuring equipment cannot measure emotion, expression, and satisfaction. They can only measure voltage and current.

 
Two completely separate things. Which one would you like to discuss? I'm happy to discuss either, but I won't slide back and forth from one to the other. That is just obfuscation.

 

[Baxide]

You can't have one without the other.

 

[money4me247]

  The regulars dictate the attitude of this place which unfortunately drives people that have a sincere curiosity or those that are already knowledgeable away. If this place really had engineers and scientists participating, it would be a whole lot more chill and knowledge would be shared without a clenched fist or absolutist attitude. 

+1000.
 
I don't see why so many people in the sound science forums have such an elitist, dismissive, absolutist attitude. It is contradictory to the whole point of science!!! If there is a question or difference in opinion, you test it, not dismiss it. There is no such thing as absolutes in science, it is just about applying the scientific method to questions.
 
Afterall, even gravity is just a theory! I think real scientists would be pretty appalled with some of the attitude displayed around here.

 

[bigshot]

I love it when the person with the lowest score claims victory. Vote Dewey!

 

[Baxide]

  +1000.
 
I don't see why so many people in the sound science forums have such an elitist, dismissive, absolutist attitude. It is contradictory to the whole point of science!!! If there is a question or difference in opinion, you test it, not dismiss it. There is no such thing as absolutes in science, it is just about applying the scientific method to questions.
 
Afterall, even gravity is just a theory! I think real scientists would be pretty appalled with some of the attitude displayed around here.

You should try to get a place on a science convention. It's a dog eat dog kind of meeting most of the time. You have the ones plugging their theory for an upcoming book or article in Science magazine, and the ones aiming for a Noble price in science etc. And in between you have the ones trying to make sense of it all. I remember walking out of such a meeting and going to a bar instead. Far more chances of getting listened to, if only it is the barman or his side kick.

 

[money4me247]

  You should try to get a place on a science convention. It's a dog eat dog kind of meeting most of the time. You have the ones plugging their theory for an upcoming book or article in Science magazine, and the ones aiming for a Noble price in science etc. And in between you have the ones trying to make sense of it all. I remember walking out of such a meeting and going to a bar instead. Far more chances of getting listened to, if only it is the barman or his side kick.

hahaha... that sucks. people can be such dicks sometimes. at medical conferences, everyone is generally really nice! free food too heh

 

[KamijoIsMyHero]

You should try to get a place on a science convention. It's a dog eat dog kind of meeting most of the time. You have the ones plugging their theory for an upcoming book or article in Science magazine, and the ones aiming for a Noble price in science etc. And in between you have the ones trying to make sense of it all. I remember walking out of such a meeting and going to a bar instead. Far more chances of getting listened to, if only it is the barman or his side kick.

That is a place where people have motives to make money or gain recognition. This sub-forum is for people to participate at their own leisure.

 

[Rajikaru]

That is a place where people have motives to make money or gain recognition. This sub-forum is for people to participate at their own leisure.

 
It's a good thing you specified 'sub-forum'. Remember...'back of the train'.  

 

[KamijoIsMyHero]

Headphones discussion is also a a sub-forum o.o The structure/division of the forum list is what I mean when I mention "sub-forum"

 

[Dark_wizzie]

My opinion is that a treble peak increases the perceived detail... whether as actual detail amplification or simply tricking our brain.

 

[cjl]

Afterall, even gravity is just a theory!

A scientific theory is something quite different from a colloquial "theory". A scientific theory has an enormous weight of evidence behind it, and represents a self-consistent picture of how we think something behaves. It's far, far more than just idle speculation.

 

[money4me247]

  A scientific theory is something quite different from a colloquial "theory". A scientific theory has an enormous weight of evidence behind it, and represents a self-consistent picture of how we think something behaves. It's far, far more than just idle speculation.

yea, that's exactly what I'm saying. the fact is that the theory of gravity has an enormous weight of evidence but is still thought by the scientific community as a theory, while here on these audiophile forums, subject matter much less well established is being proposed as absolute truths...
 
interesting difference in perspective to say the least.