[barleyguy]

Hi. Just a curiosity question. I'm pondering getting some high end earbuds, because the ergonomics of headphones/IEMs aren't always to my liking. (Headphones push on my glasses. And having IEM's in the ears more than a couple hours a day can be fatiguing. Also, earbuds are good for taking in and out at work.) Those of you who have tried Yuin earbuds and also have experience with high end IEM's and headphones - where do the Yuins fit in your opinion?

My everyday headphones are Grado SR225's and soon UM custom molded Klipsch X10's. I also have modded orthodynamics for late night listening. I'm planning high end custom IEM's for next summer, probably JH13's or the next thing from Westone. I have 4 headphone amps, a tube hybrid (CTH), a solid state studio amp (Samson Q5), an Icon Mobile and a Fiio E5.

I normally listen to vocal trance, rock, and a touch of classical. Lately it's been Infected Mushroom, Regina Spektor, Oceanlab, Pink Floyd (Animals), and 311.

Would the OK1 be at about the level of a Westone 3/UM3X? Or at a NuForce NE-7/NE-8 level? Somewhere in between? What about on a headphone comparison chart? Would it compare to a Grado RS1? Or Grado SR225? Or the SR80? Or is it more of a Sennheiser PX100 class?

And then the PK3. Where would it sit?

I realize this may be an apples/oranges question. But if I'm going to spend a non-trivial amount of money on earbuds, I'd like to know where they'll be on the scale.

Thanks.

EDIT: As a side topic, which Yuin has the best bang-for-the-buck? And other really good earbuds to consider?

 

[originalsnuffy]

There are zillions of posts along these lines here.

I think the PK3s are quite a deal. They sound quite nice for around $40.

I like them a bit better than the Nuforce NE7ms that I have, but this is apples to oranges. I have a love/hate thing going with IEMs in the first place.

I won't buy particularly expensive headphones as I tend to lose and abuse them.

In my mind throwing them in my pocket, gym bag, or briefcase without some other kind of protection is abuse.

 

[barleyguy]

I've read many of the posts about the Yuins, and I realize people really like them. My main question is: are they a worthwhile addition to a collection, and in the context of what I already own, should I go with the PK3, the OK1, or something in between?

 

[abellaw]

Well i am far from the most informed person on headphones. But i was in a similar position to you not to long ago. I was interested in getting a pair of Yuins but the idea of dropping some serious change on some earbuds was really intimidating.

But i saw some PK1s used for a $100 and took the plunge. Let me say that i was blown away by the PK1s and continue to be till this day. They are better than any portable can i own, when powered properly they easily beat my SR-80s. To be honest i like them better than my HF2s for some cds. They are really clear and detailed and very musical. When powered properly they have a great soundstage too. Like it is surprising just how good they do sound. One word of warning is that if you are planning on using them unamped it is a better idea to get a lower end model. Like my gf uses the PK2s. However i think that if properly powered the PK1 is a worthy addition to any collection

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by abellaw /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well i am far from the most informed person on headphones. But i was in a similar position to you not to long ago. I was interested in getting a pair of Yuins but the idea of dropping some serious change on some earbuds was really intimidating. But i saw some PK1s used for a $100 and took the plunge. Let me say that i was blown away by the PK1s and continue to be till this day. They are better than any portable can i own, when powered properly they easily beat my SR-80s. To be honest i like them better than my HF2s for some cds. They are really clear and detailed and very musical. When powered properly they have a great soundstage too. Like it is surprising just how good they do sound. One word of warning is that if you are planning on using them unamped it is a better idea to get a lower end model. Like my gf uses the PK2s. However i think that if properly powered the PK1 is a worthy addition to any collection

Thanks. I'll definitely consider the PK1's then. I always listen amped. I've also read that the PK series is more comfortable than the OK series. Since ergonomics is one of the things I'm looking for, the PK1 may be the best choice.

 

[Father Schu]

When used as earbuds the PK's and OK's are equal in the comfort department, i.e., same form factor.

 

[mvw2]

The OK1 is very similar to the ER4. I consider them on par with each other and it's simply a matter of trading off one aspect for another. Versus some of the higher end IEMs like the Westone W3/UM3X, Sennheiser IE8, Shure SE530, and UE Triple.Fi 10, the OK1 is maybe a hair down. Frankly, the sound quality is excellent, but the OK1 does start to lack some of the balance and range available in some of the multi-driver options. The ER4 really isn't much of a drop down from these earphones either, but the ER4 too starts to lack some of the frequency response range of some of these earphones since it's only a single driver. I am speaking from a holistic standpoint here. For example, the OK1 does do certain things arguably better then any other of these earphones. For example, with continued listening it really does disappear in the sense that you stop noticing you're even listening to earphones. The sense of stage space is very linear and infinite, and there's a lot of realism in the sound, good enough to fool you at times. These are things I can't quite say about any of these other earphones who don't quite pull off some of the same hat tricks. However, they pull off other tricks better. So, we're back to trade-offs.

A lot of the choice comes down to personal preference. What works best is what best fits your personal preferences. That's how it always works.

The OK1 is considered better in many ways to the PK1, but their gearings are a bit different. The OK1 has more clarity/detail, better stage space, but the PK1 has more bass, and has more fun factor to it.

I'm not sure about ergonomics. If buds don't bother you, then I don't think either would be an issue. Some folks just dislike buds and would prefer something in the ear rather then hanging on the ear. Some folks don't like either and prefer clip on or full sized headphones. Yuin offers their G2A and G1A as great options when stepping outside of the realm of in-ear products.

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Schu /img/forum/go_quote.gif When used as earbuds the PK's and OK's are equal in the comfort department, i.e., same form factor.

Good to hear. Someone had commented in another thread that they switched to the PK3's because the OK2's were too big for their ears. Not sure what that is all about. But I have large ear canals, so it probably isn't relevant to me even if they were different.

Abellaw, I noticed that you have the Icon Mobile in your profile. I also have an Icon Mobile that I use as a USB DAC and a portable amp. Does it sound good with the PK1's?

 

[mvw2]

I've read the same, but I haven't really seen specifics on the subject. I commented in one of the threads about it measuring the specific size of the OK1. I don't have a PK1 to compare it to though, so I haven't the faintest clue. I feel most earbuds are roughly the same in dimension. You don't really see all that vast of variations.

The Icon's a good amp, on par with the FiiO E5 though, just a couple extra features. Really good amps start to get somewhat pricey, but they can offer a sizable gain over a budget product both in terms of sound quality and raw wattage to actually effortlessly push a headphone. It can make a relatively noticeable difference.

 

[wantmyf1]

I don't really have to much to add to what mvw2 said. I'll just throw in that I was shocked at how good my PK1's sounded when I first listened to them. I still expect to be disappointed when I go from my Grado's or Ultrasone's to my PK1's, but I have yet to be disappointed! They are overacheiver's! And even the PK1's (never heard the OK1), in my opinion, are a fantastic value. They are not cheap, but their sound can compete with other phones that cost two or maybe even three times more.

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've read the same, but I haven't really seen specifics on the subject. I commented in one of the threads about it measuring the specific size of the OK1. I don't have a PK1 to compare it to though, so I haven't the faintest clue. I feel most earbuds are roughly the same in dimension. You don't really see all that vast of variations. The Icon's a good amp, on par with the FiiO E5 though, just a couple extra features. Really good amps start to get somewhat pricey, but they can offer a sizable gain over a budget product both in terms of sound quality and raw wattage to actually effortlessly push a headphone. It can make a relatively noticeable difference.

I've also got a CTH, which is high end. But it requires wall power, so the Icon Mobile would be the portable amp.

I'm a huge fan of detail and soundstage, so from that perspective the OK1 sounds great. Bass is a good thing too, but as long as it goes deep I don't care if it's hyped. It would be nice if the bottom octave (20-40) is at least present.


Quote:

Originally Posted by wantmyf1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't really have to much to add to what mvw2 said. I'll just throw in that I was shocked at how good my PK1's sounded when I first listened to them. I still expect to be disappointed when I go from my Grado's or Ultrasone's to my PK1's, but I have yet to be disappointed! They are overacheiver's! And even the PK1's (never heard the OK1), in my opinion, are a fantastic value. They are not cheap, but their sound can compete with other phones that cost two or maybe even three times more.

Cool. That was exactly my question: Do they compare to other headphones at and above their price range?? The answer sounds like yes.

 

[mvw2]

In most cases 20Hz to 40Hz isn't there, for most earphones. Most of what you actually hear is higher up in the scale. There is so very little information down below 40Hz short some rap and techno. That low of range is really only visceral which earphones don't really do anyways. A lot of what people think is a low frequency tone in that range is typically really a bit higher. Low bass to a lot of people is more realistically 50-60Hz.

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif In most cases 20Hz to 40Hz isn't there, for most earphones. Most of what you actually hear is higher up in the scale. There is so very little information down below 40Hz short some rap and techno. That low of range is really only visceral which earphones don't really do anyways. A lot of what people think is a low frequency tone in that range is typically really a bit higher. Low bass to a lot of people is more realistically 50-60Hz.

I do realize that there isn't a lot in the bottom octave. But I do still miss it when it's gone. My Klipsch X10's are solid to 20 hz. I've confirmed with test tones to 20 hz and with a song that has 33 hz notes.

That said, I'm probably going to order either PK1's or OK1's pretty soon. I'm leaning towards the PK1's, partly for the slightly lower price and partly because the "fun" sound signature might be what I want from earbuds. The customs and orthos probably have an inherent advantage when it comes to analytical.

I might even have them add in a pair of PK3's. I could give them a good listen for my Head-Fi edumacation, and then give them away as a gift in December.

 

[mvw2]

Having the note and having the note with any meaningful output (relative to the rest of the frequency response) are two different things.

You can make a LOT of earphones produce a 20Hz-30Hz tone, but it may still be 20dB or more down from the loudness at 100Hz. In normally listening, this makes it effectively not there. Ther perceivable noise floor for most people is around -20dB to -30dB If something is this quiet relative to the other content, you won't notice it.

The only earphone that I've used to date that I could say produces a 20Hz tone at the same volume as a 1kHz tone or a 10kHz tone is Sennheiser's IE8. No other earphone I've used has maintained frequency response sensitivity down to that low. Now most of the earphones I've used can produce a 30Hz to 40Hz tone...when EQed significantly.

 

[wantmyf1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can make a LOT of earphones produce a 20Hz-30Hz tone, but it may still be 20dB or more down from the loudness at 100Hz. In normally listening, this makes it effectively not there. Ther perceivable noise floor for most people is around -20dB to -30dB If something is this quiet relative to the other content, you won't notice it.

Good information mvw2, thanks!