What's the deal with MF?
Feb 3, 2006 at 2:48 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 81
Saint_1

Saint_1

Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Posts
85
Likes
10
Before joining this forum, I had (pretty much) decided on the...

X-LPS v3
X-CAN v3
Sennheiser HD 650

with my Thorens TD 160 MK II for a headphone-only setup
(I also considered saving a lot of cash and getting the new Bellari VP129)

Anyway, I had the impression that the X-CAN/ Sennheiser combo was one of the set-ups of choice here at Headfi.
I was surprised to discover comments on the cheap parts and poor quality control of the X-CAN v3! References to unmatched tubes, and overall low quality (is it really made in CHINA?!! I thought all MF was made in the UK!)

I had previously ruled out Antique Sound Labs' phono and head amps, as they've kind of fallen out of favor recently at audioasylum (customer service, quality issues, etc). As I am NON-TECHNICAL (I would blind myself with solder within five minutes), reliability is a big priority...

Well, sorry about the length of this message - but I am confused, and any info/help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thank you my brothers.
 
Feb 3, 2006 at 2:54 AM Post #2 of 81
Yes, MF isn't currently enjoying any surge of popularity on the boards - how come? Who knows.
 
Feb 3, 2006 at 8:46 AM Post #3 of 81
Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint_1
References to unmatched tubes, and overall low quality (is it really made in CHINA?!! I thought all MF was made in the UK!)


I really can't comment on the current quality of MF gear, but why on earth would anyone link being built in China with poor quality?
 
Feb 3, 2006 at 1:51 PM Post #4 of 81
Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint_1
is it really made in CHINA?!!


Made in Taiwan actually. Very well put together but, as with some of the commercial amps, some of the parts are pretty cheap and cheerful... to be fair to MF 90% of the V3 is actually very good quality, it's only really let down by the general purpose 85c "Jamicon" capacitors and the lack of heatsinks on the transistors. A "penny" is a lot of money in the cut throat world of electronics and MF seem to have done most of their penny pinching with the capacitors fitting el cheapo types.... obviously for them to fit, say, Panasonic 105C FM caps it would add another £60 or so to the "retail" price but you can fit these yourself for around £10 or so....... money well spent!

Just as a point of interest, I had a look at the dealers price list when I was in having a look around the shop and they buy the X-CAN V3 for £103 from MF. It retails @ £249 so that's a clear profit of £146 to the dealer. When you consider that MF make a profit on the £103 then you get an idea of just how cut throat the electronics market is and how even a "penny" makes a huge difference to their profit margins. Some people have intimated that MF don't fit a switch as the amp is designed to be left on all the time.... nonsense...... they don't fit a switch because they cost £1 a pop and it would probably add another £15 onto the retail price of the amp...... every last penny counts when you're a commercial manufacturer.
 
Feb 3, 2006 at 2:00 PM Post #5 of 81
Quote:

Originally Posted by keiron99
I really can't comment on the current quality of MF gear, but why on earth would anyone link being built in China with poor quality?


Built in China = more profit. plain and simple.
 
Feb 3, 2006 at 9:45 PM Post #7 of 81
I'm just not getting - or accepting - the "anti China" comments here. The quality of the products turned out from there is every bit as good as here in Europe (and probably better than America - Chrysler cars, anyone?)

My Rotel kit is the best put together hifi I've ever owned. I've had a few digital cameras in recent years, built in China - absolutely superb precision instruments. Some of the best regarded hifi kit in the world, such as Quad, is assembled there. Just what is the issue?
 
Feb 3, 2006 at 10:24 PM Post #8 of 81
Quote:

Originally Posted by keiron99
I'm just not getting - or accepting - the "anti China" comments here. The quality of the products turned out from there is every bit as good as here in Europe (and probably better than America - Chrysler cars, anyone?)

My Rotel kit is the best put together hifi I've ever owned. I've had a few digital cameras in recent years, built in China - absolutely superb precision instruments. Some of the best regarded hifi kit in the world, such as Quad, is assembled there. Just what is the issue?


the current perception that Chinese built products are bad came about for the same reason as the 1950s perception that Japanese products were bad. the Chinese are reversing this perception the same way that the Japanese did, but it hasn't taken hold yet.
 
Feb 4, 2006 at 12:41 AM Post #9 of 81
I'll have less of a problem with things being made in China when manufacturers adjust their price accordingly from when their products were originally being made in places like the UK (e.g. ARCAM). Same price, cheaper labor, can only mean higher profit margins. Wouldn't it be nice if even a fraction of that additional profit was passed along to the consumer? ARCAM used to pride itself on making all of its products in the UK. Since they moved production to China, I notice that their pride seems to be focused elsewhere. I personally am more partial to companies like Rega, that manage to be competitive and still build locally (to the company's HQ).
 
Feb 4, 2006 at 1:01 AM Post #10 of 81
Thank you for all the responses.

Pink Floyd,
do you still recommend MF? I'll probably buy from the internet, and I'm not sure how to check tubes and upgrade capacitors...

Keiron99,
Japan initially established itself and gained market share with low cost, low quality products. Every year they raised the quality until they matched then surpassed competitors. (In the automobile industry, Japan invested heavily in superior research and design to comply with and exceed America's new pollution standards while Detroit invested in a long and costly legal battle with the government, continued to produce inefficient and poorly made vehicles, and failed to adapt to a changing market)

I'm not anti-China. But they are relatively inexperienced with manufacturing and still relatively early on the learning curve. Products are made in China because of cheap labor, period.

Manufacturing is an evolutionary process. You must start somewhere -- and emerging markets usually start at the lower level. Workforces are uneducated and untrained (most workforces are untrained until they are hired, but lack of education makes this process more difficult). They will start with low quality products while learning the manufacturing process. The workforce is trained and tolerances narrow and quality improves. But this is a learning process...

-Andrew
 
Feb 4, 2006 at 1:20 AM Post #11 of 81
Two of the main components of my system are chinese designed and manufactured (the Eastsound CD-E5 and my FEEL amp). Needless to say I doubt you could find better build quality at their price points. Not to mention the fact that they sound fantastic and compete with components twice their price.
 
Feb 4, 2006 at 2:33 AM Post #12 of 81
OK, this thread is getting off topic.

I know China puts out some great stuff and is getting better.

I was actually seriously considering the Chinese-made PrimaLuna integrated amp for a while (but no headphone out
580smile.gif
)



What I want to know is; do you recommend the X-CAN v3? Why or why not?



Any other amp suggestions?

v4 coming anytime soon? (any improvements planned?)

I talked to Craig a few times in the Moth Audio days...
even the new Eddie Current might be out of my price range (and I also need a phono pre)

Thanks,
Andrew
 
Feb 4, 2006 at 8:02 AM Post #15 of 81
I thought the new EC-01 was being introduced at $349? Is this not less than an X-Can v.3?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint_1

I talked to Craig a few times in the Moth Audio days...
even the new Eddie Current might be out of my price range (and I also need a phono pre)

Thanks,
Andrew


 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Back
Top