[catscratch]

Howdy gents,

Interesting responses so far. But, I have to repeat that what we should be after here is not a "I want headphone X with a bit of headphone Y thrown in for good measure" but a more specific description of the actual sound itself. If a member hasn't heard headphone X and headphone Y then throwing them into the mix isn't very productive for our purposes.

Also, "I want the headphone to disappear" isn't really what we're after either, because different headphones disappear in different ways. The HE90 may be extremely transparent, liquid, and coherent sounding, and it doesn't resemble a headphone presentation at all and so it disappears; at the same time, something like the L3000 (I persume, I haven't heard one) may have enough drive and dynamics to get the listener toe-tapping and absorbed in the music, without needing to be extremely smooth and transparent in the first place. So, same effect, but different ways to get there, and it is the specific ways that we should talk about. How does a headphone disappear for you? Yes, this is not an easy thing to talk about! A lot of our audiophile lexicon has evolved from our attempts to describe the undescribable, and this is more of the same. It has taken me a while to formulate my preferences, but having once stated them, I find that I have a clearer idea as to what I want to do with my system than I had before.

Anyway, it is very interesting to read the rather varied sonic preferences that people have. Given our discreptancies in our perceptions of the very same headphones, and our often heated arguments about them, I expected no less.

See You on the

Straight

Side of the Moon

 

[SeagramSeven]

The truth is that there is no "Ultimate Ideal Sound Signature". Not in general, and not even for a specific person.

You may think you want X only to realize, after hearing Y, that you like it even more. You revise your "desire", and tell yourself your ideal is something similar to Y. Then you hear Z and realize that your "preference" or "ultimate goal" was yet again...wrong. Now your "goal sound" is something "similar to Z".

This assumes that you will always attempt to expose yourself to new sounds, new equipment, and the like. If you declare "My sound is ideal" and stop searching for other alternatives, you have certainly NOT found any ideal (since it cannot be had), all you have done is surrendered and said "I will settle for what I have, ignoring the possibility of improvement".

The only limits are what man can create, and your wallet.

On a side note, remember that there are many people in this world with both damaged hearing, and in many cases no hearing at all. The ideal sound for them....would be any sound at all. Cherish what you have, even if it seems insignificant. Only in it's absence can you truly appreciate it.

 

[warMen]

tight bass and good mids and highs. not too bright, probably flat. also a good soundstage, and none of that "in your head stuff". I'm not too much of a headphone connoisseur... yet.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

First off, I disagree with absolutely everything catscratch says about Etys and Senns.

Secondly, I have no hard and fast sound signature preferences, although I will, in general, pick less heavily colored cans over extremely bright or bassy ones.

 

[reivaj]

I personally love the tinny sound with the echo that sounds like im sitting in the back of a trash can while the band is playing inside of the trash compactor

 

[hYdrociTy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reivaj /img/forum/go_quote.gif I personally love the tinny sound with the echo that sounds like im sitting in the back of a trash can while the band is playing inside of the trash compactor

Lo-Fi PReyeD! I love those little cube no name 2.1 computer systems! at low volumes at night it sounds like im standing at the rear row of a 10,000 people capacity concert hall..... so ambient and distant...

Yea actually my tastes differ for each of my moods. k501/hd580 most of the time, but when i am excited I would bust out the souped up ksc35s. I love the energetic k1000's but yea the price is a real turnoff.

 

[J-Pak]

I don't really have a preference in sound signature. I do like a slight midbass hump (ever so slight) to give drums that extra "kick".

What I do want is exceptional imaging, soundstage, and instrument separation. Unfortunately the last requirements knock out most of the "run of the mill" headphones

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nothing101 /img/forum/go_quote.gif just curious is there any headphone OTHER than the he90 that doesnt have much of a sound sig? maybe the k1000? i hear the dt880 is meant to come close but its meant to sound dry. i havent actually heard any of the cans mentioned. i dont think its really possibleto do this with headphones although with speakers you also have room acoustic effects in the equation.

Sounds like the OP would be satisfied with the K-1000 - lowest sound signature of any can I've heard.

 

[MaloS]

In response to SeagramSeven:
well of course it is impossible per say, but if you want to rephrase the question, here is what it states: What sound qualities are you looking from your phones primarily, and which areas are not as important to you? When answering this question you can more easily answer where to upgrade so as to maximize efficiency of your wallet. We are audiophiles, and we are trying to make this experience as enjoyable as insanely possible, otherwise we would not be here you know.


As per OP's question:

Well I prefer I guess to think about this in form of equipment used to create music, and the space taken up by the sound. When I hear the word tubes - I think tube guitar-amps, which are known for their great distortion and sustain abilities. They will make the sound sharp or thick for you, all the matter of how you overdrive them and eq the sound thrown at them. What I do like to hear from overdriven guitar is sharpness yet thickness. Guitarists come to us terms like mud, fuzziness, scream, and a few others alot. Bassists worry about their punch more so than guitarists, who on the other hand worry about being able to cut through when they have to stand up against a drummer and a bassist, with the latter sporting 300 watt amp to send the place shaking. (this is still in the rock area of sound).

Now as I go back to what I said above - I like to hear the sharpness of distortion combined with its thickness, rather than the thin fuzzy sounds produced by solid-state guitar amplification. A good tube overdrive will roar, and I want to hear the full impact of that, but, at the same time - I want the bass to be heard. Bassists worry about impact, sending the place into an earthquake often, but my favorite music utilizes melodic basslines that say something of their own. I want to hear their tone detail and their presence rather than the vibrations of the walls around them. And the drummer - the part I pick on alot, I want to hear them make the actual stage as drums take the most space on the stage. I want to hear individual cymbals and toms as separate voices hanging in their own spot in mid air, dancing around the pitched instruments. I would say this is where I want that same quality as Catscratch mentions he likes - fast attack but letting the sound hang in the air for some time. I want that from percussion.

Then we go to the other 2 subjects that actually go somewhat hand in hand, although achieve separately - sound stage and instrument separation. I already stated what I want drums to do stage wise - but I don't require that this happens on part of guitars/basses/keys/vocals - I'm rather happy hearing those close to me as they all say something of their own to me, they might as well be close to me to make it easier. What I do want is hearing them distinctly as separate instruments. If I hear two vocalists singing a synchronized line, I want to hear two individual entities floating maybe even in the same spot in my head, but I want to be able to tell who is who.

Lastly, on the more mechanical descriptions of sound there is always something to say. I like flat response from my headphones. From bass to highs, although I am cool with treble rolling off up on top as that is responsible for sound stage mostly - and that is my last concern in the sound. I like to hear sharpness over warmth, but I do like thickness of the mid's boost when it comes to vocals. I think thats something that the recording should be worried about rather than the phones though. Bass I like audible as I mentioned before, I am sure everyone knows what that means equipment-wise...I don't care much about punch, lots of punch makes me feel sick, but bass extension, similarly to catscratch, is more important to me than treble extension.

Maybe its OPs influence in getting me into this, but there are some strong similarities in our preference of sound. Although I have no experience with tubes in headphone amplification for now, and I am very fond of my tube-solidstate hybrid guitar amp. I personally wonder what future does such hybridization have in headphone amplification, as it certainly appears to be the best option guitar amplification has. Its lighter, cheaper, and actually pretty damn effective. The main challenge is getting the strengths of both and not the weaknesses...

So ya, tried to stay as neutral towards gear as possible...I think I almost skipped out on the word 'headphones'.

 

[Mrvile]

I love a warm, smooth sound with a little bit of bass kick, though I'm pretty tolerant of most sound signatures. However, I am super sensitive to brightness, and I can't handle bright, aggressive phones like, say, Grados. So in a nutshell, highs have to be recessed, mids need to be liquid heaven, and bass needs to tight and accurate with a bit of impact.

 

[ferraro25]

The K501, but with a smidgen more bass and bass extension (I have the "bass-less" K501s) and more overall "texture" to the instruments. That is about it. I think the K501 does highs very well. Essentially, I LOVE the "clear" sound signature. Clarity is my top priority - that, to me, is the biggest part of the definition of Hi-Fi.

Does the Stax 404, or better yet, 303, have that (with the 313 amp)? If so, that is my next (and possibly final, since I am pretty close to what I want) purchase.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Nice read MaloS, from your learned guitarist perspective with tubes, excellent and thanx!

 

[Mrvile]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferraro25 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The K501, but with a smidgen more bass and bass extension (I have the "bass-less" K501s) and more overall "texture" to the instruments. That is about it. I think the K501 does highs very well. Essentially, I LOVE the "clear" sound signature. Clarity is my top priority - that, to me, is the biggest part of the definition of Hi-Fi. Does the Stax 404, or better yet, 303, have that (with the 313 amp)? If so, that is my next (and possibly final, since I am pretty close to what I want) purchase.

Have you tried any bass mods with the K501's yet?

 

[ferraro25]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrvile /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have you tried any bass mods with the K501's yet?

Nope, except for using the K701 pads on the K501, which makes the K501 sound like utter muffled crap to me.

Ultimately, the amount of bass isn't a problem. Many times it is the right amount for me. The bigger problem is not having more texture and detail in instruments.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

 

[MaloS]

lets not get carried away off-subject with mods here...

Can we get some other perspectives here on sound? What about our grado listeners? They seem to be mostly quiet.