What happened to Grado's reputation?
Feb 18, 2011 at 9:36 PM Post #77 of 565


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Interesting posts Nikongod and Beagle.  I wonder if the change has to do with the way headphones are suddenly incredibly trendy.  I mean they have always been trendy, but that has increased quickly since the ipod was released and it seems even more so over the last couple years, maybe in part because of brands like Beats and Skullcandy.  I think lately headphones are more of a fashion statement then a tool or piece of equipment.  You're not listening to music, you're wearing headphones.  Which means that there are a lot of people interested in headphones all of a sudden who aren't as interested in sound as previous newcomers. 


I don't think it's a trend thing as much as just the seeming need to 'upgrade' all the time because 'upgrades' become available, they get reviewed here, and are always 'better' than the previous one. And of course everyone wants in. The reason there are so many options is because headphones have replaced full home stereo systems and can also be used on the go. 15-20 years ago, they were probably only used for listening at the office. Now, a good source, headphone amp and headphones gets you pretty much all of the recording and sound quality.  Almost everybody who listens to music today uses headphones. Like everything else in life, some will settle for crap because crap is good enough for them. Consequently, there is a large selection of crap. So if one educates themselves and does proper listening and eventually recognizes accurate sound, they will find the differences and personal preferences very identifiable, and won't need to ask someone else what is the best for them.
 
Or something like that..
 
Feb 19, 2011 at 12:00 AM Post #79 of 565
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Good post. I was one of the older members, and to me, the atmosphere was quite different than what it is now. There are still a lot of informative threads about all things related to headphones, it's just that they're surrounded by a bunch of recommendation threads.


We had some knock-down-drag-out dogfights and some real experts. There was no advertising, which I think did influence the atmosphere.  We had some real characters and eccentrics.  You could pop yourself a bowl of popcorn and have a beer and work your way through the posts.  If two contrarians started going at it you could see the train wreck coming from a mile away.
 
As time went on the experts I knew moved on to other boards and the huge quantity of posts drowned out the individual personalities.
 
Once you met the people at headphone meets and saw they were pretty nice it tempered any ill feelings.
 
I did learn a lot.  I don't see people having the opportunity to actually learn the subject matter of audio anymore.
 
Feb 19, 2011 at 1:51 AM Post #82 of 565
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...I think a few big Grado supporters here stopped being supporters.


Not that it happened with respect to the HF-2 specifically, but this part of your post really applies to me. When I first started out in Head-Fi almost 5 years ago now, the first Grado I bought was the SR225, which I ended up liking a lot, and then eventually I wound up buying the SR60, SR80, SR325i, RS-1 (both versions, with and without the button), and HF-2. I also heard the HF-1, GS1000, PS1000, and the PS-1 too (each at meets). In general, I used to like (John) Grado headphones a lot and I definitely supported them and recommended them in many instances.
 
But today, my position on Grado is that I'll never buy one again - not just for one reason but for a variety of reasons. The well-photographed factory tour that someone posted years ago turned me off to their production values. Reported issues & controversies over the GS1000 (at the 2006 National Meet) and HF-2 (at CanJam 09) further turned me off to the company. And then there are a bunch of smaller, more personal reasons - the supra-aural design (which I've never found to really suit my listening style), the lack of presence on Head-Fi or at meets (as you mentioned), doubts on quality control & consistency, and finally the trademark sound signature which I've never really found to be very adaptable to multiple genres of music (as my CD collection has since expanded well beyond what I ever thought it would be).
 
The only Grado I've owned that I didn't really have too many qualms about owning was the (Joe) HP1000 because it came from a different era & a different designer and had a totally unique sound that fit a wider variety of genres for me - not just rock, but also classical and jazz. But I sold it too because I found a replacement headphone that served my purposes for classical & jazz about as well and didn't really have its problems (mainly the supra-aural design).
 
I too think that Grado would hugely benefit by either establishing a presence on Head-Fi or attending meets (even if not CanJam, at least the regional NY meets). Most of the current MOTs & sponsors actively post on Head-Fi and attend meets - and I believe that this probably helps their business, as it adds to the personal element. By not doing anything, I think they're missing out on a huge opportunity.
 
Then there's also the factor of Grado having never raised prices except for the introduction of the "i" models and they don't allow dealers to sell below MSRP either. Granted, this approach does maximize profit for both Grado and the dealers, but it also reeks of overpricing, and if there's one thing I really don't like, it's buying something that's vastly overpriced. I'll assent that every business exists to make money, but IMO there's a point at which money-making turns into either sheer over-profit or greed.
 
If anything, I'd consider myself a Grado detractor now, at least as far as it's existed under John Grado. No offense intended at the company but I just don't see any compelling reasons to buy any of their models for myself or to recommend them when there are plenty of other viable headphones from other manufacturers.
 
Feb 19, 2011 at 2:27 AM Post #83 of 565
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Then there's also the factor of Grado having never raised prices except for the introduction of the "i" models and they don't allow dealers to sell below MSRP either. Granted, this approach does maximize profit for both Grado and the dealers, but it also reeks of overpricing, and if there's one thing I really don't like, it's buying something that's vastly overpriced. I'll assent that every business exists to make money, but IMO there's a point at which money-making turns into either sheer over-profit or greed.
 


Its their price fixing that I can't stand.  They do it with all of their models as well.  The prices are even crazier overseas.  Its well above exchange rates and the cost of local warranty support should dictate.  Business do exist to make money and Grado should be able to charge whatever wholesale prices they wish, but demanding that all resellers charge the same retail price crosses the line.
 
Its a shame its not illegal...
 
Feb 19, 2011 at 3:19 AM Post #85 of 565
I think Grado's are a great gateway drug into the world of hifi headphones, but for the most part they've left me feeling empty and unfulfilled.
 
It also has to do with my taste in music changing over the course of the last two years.  Also ... c'mon, who the hell are we kidding? 
 
Give me a better headphone band and make it so it holds the cups better.  It's like the elephant in the room. 
 
IN MY OPINION (yes, read that a few times in your head), the quality needs to go up.  I'm tired of accepting the crappy quality of Grados as, "Oh, it's a throwback or classic design."  For the love of God, I could buy crap quality (not sound) 225s for 200 bucks or great quality Beyers, Denons, Sennheiser, etc. headphones.
 
And some of these models aren't even new offerings from those aforementioned companies.  
 
I'm all for sound quality first, but I also like comfort and a well thought-out design, neither of which Grado is good at.
 
I feel you get more for your money these days in all price categories.
 
Feb 19, 2011 at 3:24 AM Post #86 of 565


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Its their price fixing that I can't stand.  They do it with all of their models as well.  The prices are even crazier overseas.  Its well above exchange rates and the cost of local warranty support should dictate.  Business do exist to make money and Grado should be able to charge whatever wholesale prices they wish, but demanding that all resellers charge the same retail price crosses the line.
 
Its a shame its not illegal...


Yes but aren't the fixed retail prices there to make it easier for small companies to sell Grado headhones?  I think they're trying to protect small audio shops so that they can compete with places like B&H and if they sell them then people have a place to hear them in person which is good for Grado as well.  I can't speak to the international prices because I don't know anything about. 
 
Feb 19, 2011 at 3:27 AM Post #87 of 565


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Yes but aren't the fixed retail prices there to make it easier for small companies to sell Grado headhones?  I think they're trying to protect small audio shops so that they can compete with places like B&H and if they sell them then people have a place to hear them in person which is good for Grado as well.  I can't speak to the international prices because I don't know anything about. 


international prices are...off the charts
 
Feb 19, 2011 at 3:40 AM Post #89 of 565
The HP2 measurements from Can Jam are in the file with the rest of them.
The frequency response of the HP2 is quite impressive, IMHO. To me, it looks better than the other grados in the file. Maybe that is what happened to Grado. Their most famous, most neutral, high-end headphones are history.
 
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hey DAC, where did you find the HP2 measurements?  I'd like to check out the FR as well.  I didn't know Tyll measured the HP2

 
Feb 19, 2011 at 3:59 AM Post #90 of 565
Yeah, Grado prices aren't really competitive. When I compare the hd600 and rs1, if anything the hd600 compares favorably. After all, the hd600 is more comfortable to wear, has a larger soundstage, and has a more neutral frequency response. And the hd600 is half the price.
 

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