[rroseperry]

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So true, isn't it? I do that on EVERY single customs thread, don't I? EVERY SINGLE one of them. I take it that in the 5 months you've spent on HF, you've taken the time to carry out your research and checked EVERY single customs thread and made absolutely sure that that despicable character, music_4321, just "wants to keep people from flinging themselves over the customs cliff".
 

 
No reason to get testy about it. I think you're providing a public service. I was just pointing out that the dangers of buying expensive things for poor reasons (or no reasons) is all over this site.
 
And no, I hadn't spent the time to pry though your entire opus.
 
 

 

[goodvibes]

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Only recently someone sold their $1,100 JH13s and they say they prefer the W3's SQ.

He quite liked his 13s for a while but realized that they weren't his end game. He's selling his W4s after one day!
 
 

 

[lootbag]

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Well, I skipped the W4's and went directly to the ES5's. So I actually saved $450.

. If you really want to experience a quantum leap in listening enjoyment, go custom. You'll never look back.

 
I went from W3's to ES5.
Eagerly awaiting their arrival at the moment as I had my impressions done yesterday.
 
I saw the price for W4's and it really wasn't much more for the ES5's.
So I thought what the heck and went with customs.
Really didn't see the value of the W4's versus customs.

the es5 isn't much more? $950 compared to $450?

I believe the W4 is more expensive in Canada, where I reside.
I also managed to get a discount on my ES5

 

[SteelerFan58]

 
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A quantum leap is a superb exaggeration.  I had them and didn't find them incredibly more evolved from the UM3X...especially when in a setting that both are expressly designed for, on stage.  If you have a clean line from source to reproduction then top tier universals and customs are nearly on par, save for the highest end of JHA.  Most definitely with the case of the ES5s, they are going to be very clinical and neutral. 
 
Now, in terms of the fit, you absolutely will never look back after going custom.  I, for one, cannot stand to crush my complys every time I insert.
 


 

Not an exaggeration at all.  I've gone through the upgrade paths from a number or high end universal IEM's.  The latest being the W4's and the Shure SE535's.  I think if you polled the members on this forum that have moved up to customs - many would agree that the experience was huge step up in listening enjoyment .  I don't think there's any line source clean enough to make a W4 sound as good as a ES5 - not even close.  And, from the discussions I've reviewed on this forum from those who have done the comparisons, the ES5's are in the same league with the highest end JHA's.  Mostly the difference is a preference in sound signature.
 

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

And no, I hadn't spent the time to pry though your entire opus.

Your entire opus for only 5 months is quite impressive. A lot of my posts, FYI, have been posted in the 'For Sale' forum.


Quote:

He quite liked his 13s for a while but realized that they weren't his end game. He's selling his W4s after one day!
 

 
No, he actually preferred his $399 JH5s over his $1,100 JH13s at first, then he suddenly started raving about the JH13s, then suddenly sold them and preferred the W3s & JH5s. So, he doesn't like the W4s, what is your point? The point is not whether the W4 is the 'king' of IEMs or not, but whether top-tier universals can actually compete with (high-end) customs.
 
One thing that is often overlooked when discussing customs vs top-tier universals is the fit people originally get - AND tips used - with their universals. I, for instance, have always found single flange silicone tips the best sounding. When I got my ES3X customs it was then that I confirmed that single-flange soft silicone tips (which I'd used all along) where the best sounding and closest to my ES3X's SQ. Complys, olives, or tri/ bi-flanges, in my case, sounded way off. If I'd stuck with any of the 'wrong sounding' tips, I'd have found my ES3X waaaay better than my W4, UM3X, TF10, CK100, IE8 & UM2. My ES3X, BTW, sounded significantly better than all other universals listed in my sig, even with the best sounding tips.

Not saying that single-flange silicone tips are the best for everybody. There's all manner of things going on, such as sound preference when choosing tips, not only comfort. With customs, however, there's no choice of tips or sound sig, what you have is what you get, unless a re-fit is needed.

I maintain that in my experience a well fitted top-tier universal should not sound significantly different to customs.

There's much more to it than that, but that's enough for now.
 
 

 

[rroseperry]

Quote:

Your entire opus for only 5 months is quite impressive. A lot of my posts, FYI, have been posted in the 'For Sale' forum.

You can rack up a lot of posts living on the Music Game

 

[shotgunshane]

For what it's worth: I have a custom reshelled pair of TF10's and a stock pair.  By the way people talk about customs, one would expect the reshelled TF10 to sound substantially better than the stock TF10 due to superior fit and isolation.  However I do not find this to be the case at all.  Instead I find them...different.  They insert way deeper than the stock and this seems to bring the mids forward, making vocal closer in soundstage, and of course the better isolation seems to help gain bass quantity.  I've found I really don't want more mids in the TF10 sound, so while some things are improved others are not and in the end its just different.
 
So all that being said, for customs to be "way better" than top universals, I have to assume that vastly superior BA drivers and crossovers are being used.  There's nothing that leads me to believe you can't make a universal with the same parts sound very, very close to custom.  Just my 2 cents.

 

[Spyro]

Go ahead and call me out.  I am a big boy,
 
No, I am not crazy about W4.  Don't care if it had 8 drivers.   There is nothing wrong with it.  I see why many like it but it is not for me.  Not at that price anyway. It is very refined sounding, fairly soft sounding, neutral, very referenced based and just sort of bland.  It doesn't excite me  While it has great instrument separation, the increased midrange seems to close in the space of the sound a bit to my ears.  (I really like the space or of the W3).  W4 is also the least efficient IEM I have ever used which is not good when you don't amp.  While it's less accurate, I prefer W3 because it is more efficient, has a fuller sound, has crisper treble and has a larger soundstage and superior transparency.  It's still my favorite universal.  If W4 came out when it did and W3 came out now, I still think would be going apeshit in every way because it's so unique,  Big bold sound, plenty of bass, crisp, detailed treble and a huge soundstage....and very efficient.  Works for me.
 
Remember, I don't do amps and I listen kind of on the loud side which kills your ears if the midrange is at all forward.  I prefer a more U-shape response with a big soundstage with lots of space.  I also use EQ so synergy with players is also a factor. That is my preferred sound, not anyone elses.
 
 

 

[rawrster]

Well you do have a reshelled universal so that changes it a bit. It was configured to be a universal and not a custom. I consider reshelled universals and customs (JH5, ES5, etc.) to be different.

 

[goodvibes]

 
Quote:

Your entire opus for only 5 months is quite impressive. A lot of my posts, FYI, have been posted in the 'For Sale' forum.


 
No, he actually preferred his $399 JH5s over his $1,100 JH13s at first, then he suddenly started raving about the JH13s, then suddenly sold them and preferred the W3s & JH5s. So, he doesn't like the W4s, what is your point? The point is not whether the W4 is the 'king' of IEMs or not, but whether top-tier universals can actually compete with (high-end) customs.
 
One thing that is often overlooked when discussing customs vs top-tier universals is the fit people originally get - AND tips used - with their universals. I, for instance, have always found single flange silicone tips the best sounding. When I got my ES3X customs it was then that I confirmed that single-flange soft silicone tips (which I'd used all along) where the best sounding and closest to my ES3X's SQ. Complys, olives, or tri/ bi-flanges, in my case, sounded way off. If I'd stuck with any of the 'wrong sounding' tips, I'd have found my ES3X waaaay better than my W4, UM3X, TF10, CK100, IE8 & UM2. My ES3X, BTW, sounded significantly better than all other universals listed in my sig, even with the best sounding tips.

Not saying that single-flange silicone tips are the best for everybody. There's all manner of things going on, such as sound preference when choosing tips, not only comfort. With customs, however, there's no choice of tips or sound sig, what you have is what you get, unless a re-fit is needed.

I maintain that in my experience a well fitted top-tier universal should not sound significantly different to customs.

There's much more to it than that, but that's enough for now.
 
 

Take a chill pill. The point was that it was just one person, that everybody doesn't like the same thing regardless of what it is and that his actions are as much of an example against the premise of this thread as they are for it. Basically, an isolated reference. The fellow in question will make no bones about looking for a particular weighty sig and listens with added bass EQ on everything he owns which is great for him but would not be a reference point for many others. I personally like the JH5 quite a bit but feel the 13 is clearly better. Basically, it doesn't have any meaning for or against your premise. My point of the post was to basically ask what the point of yours was sans the question.
 
There is good and bad of everything including customs. I'm sure that there's plenty I'd not take over some universals but I also think the best units out there are custom. To be fair, I haven't heard the w4 or the SM3 though those that have auditioned both those and their top custom counterparts have generally preferred the customs, maybe all but I don't like absolutes when dealing with others opinion as I know how seldom a consensus is reached. Price isn't equal so that is a qualifier but that wasn't the question.
 

 

[Spyro]

For the record, I prefer JH5 over JH13 in the respect that it is a fuller bolder/bassier sound and that is a BIG deal for me.  JH13 beats it up pretty bad beyond that.  Transparency is off the charts.  Almost unbelievable.

 

[rroseperry]

Quote:

For what it's worth: I have a custom reshelled pair of TF10's and a stock pair.  By the way people talk about customs, one would expect the reshelled TF10 to sound substantially better than the stock TF10 due to superior fit and isolation.  However I do not find this to be the case at all.  Instead I find them...different.  They insert way deeper than the stock and this seems to bring the mids forward, making vocal closer in soundstage, and of course the better isolation seems to help gain bass quantity.  I've found I really don't want more mids in the TF10 sound, so while some things are improved others are not and in the end its just different.
 
So all that being said, for customs to be "way better" than top universals, I have to assume that vastly superior BA drivers and crossovers are being used.  There's nothing that leads me to believe you can't make a universal with the same parts sound very, very close to custom.  Just my 2 cents.

Ok, you're the one with the reshelled TF10s. Thanks for this information. I was thinking about doing it to mine, but with this feedback, I think I'd rather not.
 

 

[shotgunshane]

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Ok, you're the one with the reshelled TF10s. Thanks for this information. I was thinking about doing it to mine, but with this feedback, I think I'd rather not.
 

Average Joe does too.  He might disagree with me though.
 
 

 

[shotgunshane]

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Well you do have a reshelled universal so that changes it a bit. It was configured to be a universal and not a custom. I consider reshelled universals and customs (JH5, ES5, etc.) to be different.

True, I agree.  I just think Jerry Harvey could create a universal, for instance, that sounds exactly like the JH5 and isolation and fit be the only difference.  In fact I'm very interested in his upcoming universal that is supposed to be out this year.
 

 

[Poetik]

Hey rroseperry, before you make your final decision about re-shelling your tf10's I'd wait and listen to what average_joe has to say when he gets his tf10's back from kozee. That guy has a plethora of customs so he's definitely a well of knowledge in that area. Not to say shotgunshane isn't knowledgable but average_joe sent his back for tuning so kozee might be able to get your tf10's closer to how you like them to sound.