RYCeT
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Good advice Old Pa, another vote for at least giving them another 2-3 weeks.
We MIGHT get to rescue a dachshund and bring a new member to the family
- Thread starter plainsong
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Give it more time.
Try Cesar's Way.
Do more walking. Make sure neither Tam or Pixie walk ahead of you or each other.
Don't ignore entirely, only if one is demanding your attention. The "pack leader mentality" is that you are the pack leader. The Leader does not approach a follower. But if there is even the slightest hint of aggression or defensiveness, correct it immediately. Either with Cesar's trademark "shht!" sound or a clicker, or anything that gets their attention. Either way, use the same sound all the time.
Reward the correct behavior with lots of love and a training treat as well. But ONLY when the positive behavior is there.
If you catch a biting moment, do a submissive roll. Force (firmly, but gently) the aggressor, probably going to be Pixie, on their side. Keep them there until they calm down. Then let them up. If they get aggressive again, repeat the submissive roll until they stop. Believe it or not, MoMo bit me once when we first got her. Instead of yelling, hitting, letting go, I just took the bite, rolled her on her side until she calmed down. She never bit me again.
I know it is difficult, but sounds like Pixie feels threatened, but as much as it may seem like you are hurting her feelings, you have to make Pixie feel "subordinate" to you and Tam. But also that Tam must not also assume pack leader role and dominate you and Pixie.
Dogs and wolves will often fight a stranger to assert their dominant role as the pack leader. But the key is to make sure they know that YOU are the pack leader.
Hang in there, Kim.
-Ed
Try Cesar's Way.
Do more walking. Make sure neither Tam or Pixie walk ahead of you or each other.
Don't ignore entirely, only if one is demanding your attention. The "pack leader mentality" is that you are the pack leader. The Leader does not approach a follower. But if there is even the slightest hint of aggression or defensiveness, correct it immediately. Either with Cesar's trademark "shht!" sound or a clicker, or anything that gets their attention. Either way, use the same sound all the time.
Reward the correct behavior with lots of love and a training treat as well. But ONLY when the positive behavior is there.
If you catch a biting moment, do a submissive roll. Force (firmly, but gently) the aggressor, probably going to be Pixie, on their side. Keep them there until they calm down. Then let them up. If they get aggressive again, repeat the submissive roll until they stop. Believe it or not, MoMo bit me once when we first got her. Instead of yelling, hitting, letting go, I just took the bite, rolled her on her side until she calmed down. She never bit me again.
I know it is difficult, but sounds like Pixie feels threatened, but as much as it may seem like you are hurting her feelings, you have to make Pixie feel "subordinate" to you and Tam. But also that Tam must not also assume pack leader role and dominate you and Pixie.
Dogs and wolves will often fight a stranger to assert their dominant role as the pack leader. But the key is to make sure they know that YOU are the pack leader.
Hang in there, Kim.
-Ed
Pm@c
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Quote:
Well thats not a big problem. Its not like those "book" parents that do everythign by the book, including feeding burping etc. We just give our dog a bowl of food a day, let her run around all day (after all, you cant give a dog too much exercise because if he/she is tired, they will let you know). Give her plenty of water, plenty of love, and never any problems. Except for my last dog was epileptic (sp?), so every 3 or 4 months she would take a ceisure.
Oh and just so you know, you sound very arrogant to me. I was simpyl expressing my dislike for smaller dogs, trying not to offend you, and you come out with these comments that make me look like I know nothing about dogs. Sure I dont know much about smaller dogs because I have always had a medium-large dog. I just find it annoying (since ive been in the city for 4 months) all these people in the city with small dogs, giving them coats and boots. Its pretty ****ing sad to see a dog wearing a coat or boots. The dog has fur for a reason people. Stop treating dogs like your children. Its nice to love them by petting them and such, but dont frakin dress them up. Its dumb really.
As for your situation, Im not bashing you at all, so you dont need to go on the offensive. Im just stating that I prefer a bigger dog, since where I live its easier to handle a bigger dog than a smaller dog. Plus my cat is like twice the size of the dogs you show. It would be funny to see a small dog scared of my cat (trust me, your dogs would cower at my cat, hes a fierce and angry cat).
| Originally Posted by plainsong /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess you don't know too much about dachshunds then. They're not exactly little yippie dogs. In fact, if your prim and proper little showdog wants his/her champion status attached to the name, not only must they win the dog shows, but they have to win the tracking competitions as well. The other doxie owners can learn you a little bit about doxies of they wish. The dogs themselves do not believe themselves to be small. 
But big dogs aren't without issues - bloat and hip dysplasia being among them. You have to pay attention to how and when you feed and exercise a big dog....unless of course you have no idea what bloat is and don't care about avoiding it.
Sorry for being blunt there, just in my experience, people who say that have no idea at all what having a big dog actually entails. If you know about their own little issues when compared to smaller dogs, then that's fine of course. Otherwise, it's a shame to rule out a breed simply from not knowing about it. |
Well thats not a big problem. Its not like those "book" parents that do everythign by the book, including feeding burping etc. We just give our dog a bowl of food a day, let her run around all day (after all, you cant give a dog too much exercise because if he/she is tired, they will let you know). Give her plenty of water, plenty of love, and never any problems. Except for my last dog was epileptic (sp?), so every 3 or 4 months she would take a ceisure.
Oh and just so you know, you sound very arrogant to me. I was simpyl expressing my dislike for smaller dogs, trying not to offend you, and you come out with these comments that make me look like I know nothing about dogs. Sure I dont know much about smaller dogs because I have always had a medium-large dog. I just find it annoying (since ive been in the city for 4 months) all these people in the city with small dogs, giving them coats and boots. Its pretty ****ing sad to see a dog wearing a coat or boots. The dog has fur for a reason people. Stop treating dogs like your children. Its nice to love them by petting them and such, but dont frakin dress them up. Its dumb really.
As for your situation, Im not bashing you at all, so you dont need to go on the offensive. Im just stating that I prefer a bigger dog, since where I live its easier to handle a bigger dog than a smaller dog. Plus my cat is like twice the size of the dogs you show. It would be funny to see a small dog scared of my cat (trust me, your dogs would cower at my cat, hes a fierce and angry cat).
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This is a recipe for disaster with an aggressive dog, regardless of it's size. I suppose if you live in a rural area in the middle of nowhere, this "training" method would be fine.
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Who's the arrogant one, again?
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So if you do not have much else to say other than big dogs are great and small dogs are not, then what else do you have to contribute than thread crap then?
-Ed
| Originally Posted by Pm@c /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well thats not a big problem. Its not like those "book" parents that do everythign by the book, including feeding burping etc. We just give our dog a bowl of food a day, let her run around all day (after all, you cant give a dog too much exercise because if he/she is tired, they will let you know). Give her plenty of water, plenty of love, and never any problems. Except for my last dog was epileptic (sp?), so every 3 or 4 months she would take a ceisure. |
This is a recipe for disaster with an aggressive dog, regardless of it's size. I suppose if you live in a rural area in the middle of nowhere, this "training" method would be fine.
Quote:
| Oh and just so you know, you sound very arrogant to me. I was simpyl expressing my dislike for smaller dogs, trying not to offend you, and you come out with these comments that make me look like I know nothing about dogs. Sure I dont know much about smaller dogs because I have always had a medium-large dog. I just find it annoying (since ive been in the city for 4 months) all these people in the city with small dogs, giving them coats and boots. Its pretty ****ing sad to see a dog wearing a coat or boots. The dog has fur for a reason people. Stop treating dogs like your children. Its nice to love them by petting them and such, but dont frakin dress them up. Its dumb really. |
Who's the arrogant one, again?
Quote:
| As for your situation, Im not bashing you at all, so you dont need to go on the offensive. Im just stating that I prefer a bigger dog, since where I live its easier to handle a bigger dog than a smaller dog. Plus my cat is like twice the size of the dogs you show. It would be funny to see a small dog scared of my cat (trust me, your dogs would cower at my cat, hes a fierce and angry cat). |
So if you do not have much else to say other than big dogs are great and small dogs are not, then what else do you have to contribute than thread crap then?
-Ed
Pm@c
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W/e man, I dont see your big problem. I just hate getting rained on trying to put my opinion out there. How am I arrogant because I think dogs with coats is a stupid idea. And yes, I dont need to train my dog in a formal training program because living in a rural area I can just let her run free whenever I want. She doesnt run away or run on the road or anything. She is probably more healthy than most city dogs because they dont get the exercise they need.
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Hey, when you live in the middle of nowhere, works for you, great.
But this thread wasn't about you, contrary to your beliefs.
Do you live in an urban area?
No.
Are we talking about large dogs that run lose in a farm?
No.
Since when did this discussion become about how small dogs vs. large dogs?
When you started posting.
So again, I repeat. This thread was started by an OP about an adoption experience. Got anything to contribute about rescuing dogs? Training aggressive dogs?
Your advice is to move into the country and let the dogs run free? OK, then that advice doesn't apply here.
Move on, buddy.
-Ed
| Originally Posted by Pm@c /img/forum/go_quote.gif W/e man, I dont see your big problem. I just hate getting rained on trying to put my opinion out there. How am I arrogant because I think dogs with coats is a stupid idea. And yes, I dont need to train my dog in a formal training program because living in a rural area I can just let her run free whenever I want. She doesnt run away or run on the road or anything. She is probably more healthy than most city dogs because they dont get the exercise they need. |
Hey, when you live in the middle of nowhere, works for you, great.
But this thread wasn't about you, contrary to your beliefs.
Do you live in an urban area?
No.
Are we talking about large dogs that run lose in a farm?
No.
Since when did this discussion become about how small dogs vs. large dogs?
When you started posting.
So again, I repeat. This thread was started by an OP about an adoption experience. Got anything to contribute about rescuing dogs? Training aggressive dogs?
Your advice is to move into the country and let the dogs run free? OK, then that advice doesn't apply here.
Move on, buddy.
-Ed
plainsong
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None of what you guys saying here is really meant for dachshunds though, they are a specific breed with their own little "features." One of these is stubborness, and you can't overestimate the stubborness of a dachshund. It's even part of their breed standard to have it.
It's not a question of not knowing that aggression isn't tolerated. It's a case of her being terrorized and hysterical - postering as if cornered, then attacking as if there was no other choice. The advice here is for two rational dogs, but what if one of them isn't rational? The guys on tv never seem to cover those problems. She seems to imagine slights from Tammis where there were none.
I talked to our breeder friend, Rea, and she agreed with me. In fact, she finished my sentences as to how Pixie reacted, and said absolutely not, there is no way this is going to get better, and it's best to get them both out of this situation now. And no, I'm not putting Pixie in a kennel for a couple of weeks. Jeez! Rea told me that this isn't all our fault... she's been noticing this hysterical streak in Kira, Emma, and Kaapo (Pixies sisters and brother), and she's made the choice that Kira will not be bred because of it.
So see guys, this is a little hairline flaw in Pixie, all her siblings have this hysterical streak - meaning they can build something up in their minds until they are just terrorized. And that the reaction of two adult bitches together is in no way surprising, and it will not get better. In fact, as Tamara bonds to us, it will get worse.
We can't do this to them just because we want another dog. It's not fair. If Pixie bent to Tammis a tiny bit, they would be best friends, but Pixie's mind is made up. That's it. She's a dachshund, it's even in her breed standard that her mind would be made up, and so it is.
I suppose it's tough to describe to people that you know what you're doing with your own dog, especially when they have zero experience with a given breed, but I rely on our own common sense, and the advice of someone who knows Pixie's family going back from almost the start.
In short, Rea said that the lady who suggested they have two months together to test doesn't know sh!t from Shinola when it comes to dachshunds, and to not take her advice, that the situation is downright dangerous and that they can never be left alone together.
I should also add that Pixie landed another bite, she was on her back, "cornered" where Tammis was sitting back in play session mode. She thinks she's cornered, she thinks she's being attacked when with other dogs she'd know better, so that's that.
And with that, Tammis went back to her temporary home. Her temporary flock was thrilled to see her, and her to see them, and Pixie is absolutely feeling no pain right now. Ya know, if Pixie's own flock comes over, she's sad for the rest of the evening after they leave. Tammis was here for 3 nights and Pixie couldn't give a rip. Sadly, we made the right decision.
Time to go drown my sorrows in some tunes.
It's not a question of not knowing that aggression isn't tolerated. It's a case of her being terrorized and hysterical - postering as if cornered, then attacking as if there was no other choice. The advice here is for two rational dogs, but what if one of them isn't rational? The guys on tv never seem to cover those problems. She seems to imagine slights from Tammis where there were none.
I talked to our breeder friend, Rea, and she agreed with me. In fact, she finished my sentences as to how Pixie reacted, and said absolutely not, there is no way this is going to get better, and it's best to get them both out of this situation now. And no, I'm not putting Pixie in a kennel for a couple of weeks. Jeez! Rea told me that this isn't all our fault... she's been noticing this hysterical streak in Kira, Emma, and Kaapo (Pixies sisters and brother), and she's made the choice that Kira will not be bred because of it.
So see guys, this is a little hairline flaw in Pixie, all her siblings have this hysterical streak - meaning they can build something up in their minds until they are just terrorized. And that the reaction of two adult bitches together is in no way surprising, and it will not get better. In fact, as Tamara bonds to us, it will get worse.
We can't do this to them just because we want another dog. It's not fair. If Pixie bent to Tammis a tiny bit, they would be best friends, but Pixie's mind is made up. That's it. She's a dachshund, it's even in her breed standard that her mind would be made up, and so it is.
I suppose it's tough to describe to people that you know what you're doing with your own dog, especially when they have zero experience with a given breed, but I rely on our own common sense, and the advice of someone who knows Pixie's family going back from almost the start.
In short, Rea said that the lady who suggested they have two months together to test doesn't know sh!t from Shinola when it comes to dachshunds, and to not take her advice, that the situation is downright dangerous and that they can never be left alone together.
I should also add that Pixie landed another bite, she was on her back, "cornered" where Tammis was sitting back in play session mode. She thinks she's cornered, she thinks she's being attacked when with other dogs she'd know better, so that's that.
And with that, Tammis went back to her temporary home. Her temporary flock was thrilled to see her, and her to see them, and Pixie is absolutely feeling no pain right now. Ya know, if Pixie's own flock comes over, she's sad for the rest of the evening after they leave. Tammis was here for 3 nights and Pixie couldn't give a rip. Sadly, we made the right decision.
Time to go drown my sorrows in some tunes.
Quote:
Sorry, dogs are dogs. Big or small, long or short. Breed only indicates certain traits that are more prominent, but they are not set in stone.
I think your breeder is wrong. You should've given it more time.
Sorry to hear it didn't work out.
-Ed
| Originally Posted by plainsong /img/forum/go_quote.gif None of what you guys saying here is really meant for dachshunds though, they are a specific breed with their own little "features." One of these is stubborness, and you can't overestimate the stubborness of a dachshund. It's even part of their breed standard to have it. It's not a question of not knowing that aggression isn't tolerated. It's a case of her being terrorized and hysterical - postering as if cornered, then attacking as if there was no other choice. The advice here is for two rational dogs, but what if one of them isn't rational? The guys on tv never seem to cover those problems. She seems to imagine slights from Tammis where there were none. I talked to our breeder friend, Rea, and she agreed with me. In fact, she finished my sentences as to how Pixie reacted, and said absolutely not, there is no way this is going to get better, and it's best to get them both out of this situation now. And no, I'm not putting Pixie in a kennel for a couple of weeks. Jeez! Rea told me that this isn't all our fault... she's been noticing this hysterical streak in Kira, Emma, and Kaapo (Pixies sisters and brother), and she's made the choice that Kira will not be bred because of it. So see guys, this is a little hairline flaw in Pixie, all her siblings have this hysterical streak - meaning they can build something up in their minds until they are just terrorized. And that the reaction of two adult bitches together is in no way surprising, and it will not get better. In fact, as Tamara bonds to us, it will get worse. We can't do this to them just because we want another dog. It's not fair. If Pixie bent to Tammis a tiny bit, they would be best friends, but Pixie's mind is made up. That's it. She's a dachshund, it's even in her breed standard that her mind would be made up, and so it is. I suppose it's tough to describe to people that you know what you're doing with your own dog, especially when they have zero experience with a given breed, but I rely on our own common sense, and the advice of someone who knows Pixie's family going back from almost the start. In short, Rea said that the lady who suggested they have two months together to test doesn't know sh!t from Shinola when it comes to dachshunds, and to not take her advice, that the situation is downright dangerous and that they can never be left alone together. I should also add that Pixie landed another bite, she was on her back, "cornered" where Tammis was sitting back in play session mode. She thinks she's cornered, she thinks she's being attacked when with other dogs she'd know better, so that's that. And with that, Tammis went back to her temporary home. Her temporary flock was thrilled to see her, and her to see them, and Pixie is absolutely feeling no pain right now. Ya know, if Pixie's own flock comes over, she's sad for the rest of the evening after they leave. Tammis was here for 3 nights and Pixie couldn't give a rip. Sadly, we made the right decision.
Time to go drown my sorrows in some tunes. |
Sorry, dogs are dogs. Big or small, long or short. Breed only indicates certain traits that are more prominent, but they are not set in stone.
I think your breeder is wrong. You should've given it more time.
Sorry to hear it didn't work out.
-Ed
Pm@c
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Hmm well you certainly arent helping either.
| Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, when you live in the middle of nowhere, works for you, great. But this thread wasn't about you, contrary to your beliefs. Do you live in an urban area? No. Are we talking about large dogs that run lose in a farm? No. Since when did this discussion become about how small dogs vs. large dogs? When you started posting. So again, I repeat. This thread was started by an OP about an adoption experience. Got anything to contribute about rescuing dogs? Training aggressive dogs? Your advice is to move into the country and let the dogs run free? OK, then that advice doesn't apply here. Move on, buddy. -Ed |
Hmm well you certainly arent helping either.
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Well, perhaps she should've thrown one of the dogs into a fire then?
-Ed
| Originally Posted by Pm@c /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm well you certainly arent helping either. |
Well, perhaps she should've thrown one of the dogs into a fire then?
-Ed
Pm@c
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Perhaps your a ****ing *******?
| Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, perhaps she should've thrown one of the dogs into a fire then?
-Ed |
Perhaps your a ****ing *******?
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All you have left is profane insults, eh?
Too bad they got filtered out.
-Ed
| Originally Posted by Pm@c /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps your a ****ing *******? |
All you have left is profane insults, eh?
Too bad they got filtered out.
-Ed
Pm@c
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Because you are blowing things out of proportion. I said one thing in one thread and suddenly it rolls over to another thread with it has NOTHING in common with? Try to be a little more realistic with things I say. What would make you think I would throw a dog into the fire?
| Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif All you have left is profane insults, eh?
Too bad they got filtered out. -Ed |
Because you are blowing things out of proportion. I said one thing in one thread and suddenly it rolls over to another thread with it has NOTHING in common with? Try to be a little more realistic with things I say. What would make you think I would throw a dog into the fire?
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So you don't appreciate me thread crapping then?
-Ed
| Originally Posted by Pm@c /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because you are blowing things out of proportion. I said one thing in one thread and suddenly it rolls over to another thread with it has NOTHING in common with? Try to be a little more realistic with things I say. What would make you think I would throw a dog into the fire? |
So you don't appreciate me thread crapping then?
-Ed
plainsong
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It's ok guys. Ed means well. I know he's not crapping on my already crappy day. He's just giving his opinion. It's tough for him to see what went on here and why I had to draw the line. Two landed bites, and one traumatized dog (the one doing the biting) doesn't bode well. It didn't get better as time went on it got worse. Pixie has gotten on with dogs in the past so we know how it is when it's working. It wasn't, and wasn't going to. Rea has yet to be wrong where Pixie is concerned, so it's tough explaining just how many years of experience she's coming from. This little flaw only popped up in the bloodline in Pixie's generation, and she's talked to the owners of Pixie's father, investigated this - because, she's a breeder, she wants to always improve her dachshunds. And yeah, it's from him. Yes, breed standards are only a general guideline, but I'm saying that Pixie has this in her, and her decision was as plain as day.
If the breeder's opinion didn't correspond to our experience that would be one thing, but it's another when someone whose opinion you respect is speaking a home truth. Yes, we could have soldiered on, taken the risk, never trust them to be together, no matter how friendly they seem, chosen to ignore the broken shell that used to be our dog, and maybe she'd come around, probably not. Probably Tammis would take the lead role, which is fine, but that Pixie would not be beta, but Omega to the extreme. Or maybe not. She could choose instead to fight, and fight, and fight. Yes, we're the pack leaders, we can stop fights, but at what cost? Always guarding them? Always using crates? Always having to be exactly correct in who gets petted first, and Pixie not at all, and fed first, no toys to speak of, trying to keep them apart in a small flat...
What the hell kind of life is this? No no no, they deserve better. You know what happened when two female doxies similarly differing in age and size got together? They seemed only to bicker, so they were outside playing, Rea and her friend came back out into the yard after only a few minutes and one of the dogs was dead.
I'm not going down that path of always having to guard. Either they get along, with some guidance and help from us, or they don't. Despite what they sell you on tv, not ALL dogs are meant to be friends. With anyone else, Pixie may have just said "Oh I just love you." But not Tammis, for some unknown reason.
Now as for a puppy, she loves puppies, so at the puppy stage there would be no worries at all. She loves playing mom. It would just be a risk hoping she remembers it's the same puppy once it grows up. She should, but we feel a bit gun shy now.
This was all so she could have a sister and be part of a flock. There's no point making both of them suffer if that's never going to truly happen. I love Pixie...and yes even Tammis too much to put them through that.
We weren't looking for love at first site. Pixie is a big one for that, but even ignoring each other would have been an excellent start. An argument is par for the course, only depending on the circumstances. If they're working out their rank, that's normal...this was.not.that.
If the breeder's opinion didn't correspond to our experience that would be one thing, but it's another when someone whose opinion you respect is speaking a home truth. Yes, we could have soldiered on, taken the risk, never trust them to be together, no matter how friendly they seem, chosen to ignore the broken shell that used to be our dog, and maybe she'd come around, probably not. Probably Tammis would take the lead role, which is fine, but that Pixie would not be beta, but Omega to the extreme. Or maybe not. She could choose instead to fight, and fight, and fight. Yes, we're the pack leaders, we can stop fights, but at what cost? Always guarding them? Always using crates? Always having to be exactly correct in who gets petted first, and Pixie not at all, and fed first, no toys to speak of, trying to keep them apart in a small flat...
What the hell kind of life is this? No no no, they deserve better. You know what happened when two female doxies similarly differing in age and size got together? They seemed only to bicker, so they were outside playing, Rea and her friend came back out into the yard after only a few minutes and one of the dogs was dead.
I'm not going down that path of always having to guard. Either they get along, with some guidance and help from us, or they don't. Despite what they sell you on tv, not ALL dogs are meant to be friends. With anyone else, Pixie may have just said "Oh I just love you." But not Tammis, for some unknown reason.
Now as for a puppy, she loves puppies, so at the puppy stage there would be no worries at all. She loves playing mom. It would just be a risk hoping she remembers it's the same puppy once it grows up. She should, but we feel a bit gun shy now.
This was all so she could have a sister and be part of a flock. There's no point making both of them suffer if that's never going to truly happen. I love Pixie...and yes even Tammis too much to put them through that.
We weren't looking for love at first site. Pixie is a big one for that, but even ignoring each other would have been an excellent start. An argument is par for the course, only depending on the circumstances. If they're working out their rank, that's normal...this was.not.that.
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