[seacard]

Now that the song is stuck in your head, I want to ask about timbre in high-end headphones. For perspective, I am a former professional classical musician, and I still have season tickets to the orchestra (actually, multiple), chamber music, opera, etc. I go to classical concerts at least once a week. For me, timbre is one of the highest priorities in headphone selection -- a trumpet should sound like a trumpet, a cello like a cello, etc.

But I'm finding that timbre seems to be a low priority in headphone design and review. Some reviewers don't talk about it all. Some put very little priority on it. When I do a search for "timbre" in titles on headfi, there are very few recent threads. One podcast I just listened to, conducting a shootout of flagships, mentioned that most people are so used to hearing dynamic drivers that they are used to the timbre produced by dynamics and can't evaluate electrostatics property. That made no sense to me, as I figured headphone manufacturers and listeners know what a violin sounds like.

I'm finding that very few modern headphones produce accurate sound. They might sound beautiful, but nothing like an actual instrument sounds. So many high-end headphones have a plasticky fake timbre.

So, I have two questions: (1) Is timbre entirely unimportant these days and do most listeners just want a pretty tone, regardless if it's real, and (2) if you're a classical music listener and a concert-goer, do you have a favorite headphone in terms of timbre production. (Is there any summit-fi headphone that beats the HD600?)

 

[Fargeg]

If I'm selling $2,000 headphones and need to compromise on either detail, engagement, imaging, or timbre, timbre's going first every time. If someone prioritizes timbre first, they'll probably buy themselves an HD600 and save themselves one-and-a-half grand anyway.

EQ'ing the HD800S with oratory1990's preset and adding on a 12400 Hz/Q 6.0/+5 dB peak filter to fix the upper treble is what's gotten me the closest to real timbre, though it's still airy and crisp compared to sitting at a real performance. You can't really simulate that treble roll-off with headphones without tossing imaging and dynamics out the window.

One thing I've observed is that planar timbre can be highly dependent on how the headphones are positioned on your head, potentially giving some of them a worse reputation than they deserve.

 

[DeweyCH]

I love good timbre in my headphones. It’sa big part of what makes me keep a pair. Particularly timbre of lower register strings, French horns and double reed instruments. I was never a pro musician, but I was a pretty darned good amateur trumpet player in my younger days, so whenever I hear a really interesting instrument that sounds like I remember when they used to play a few chairs over it gives me the tingles.

Susvara does a great job of timbre, imo, and so does the Atrium. Most of my cans do, but off the top of my head those two stand out.

Also darn you to heck. I’ve got a 3-year-old and a Lin-Manuel Miranda obsession so that song doesn’t need much prompting to take up extended residence in my brain.

 

[helljudgement]

(1) Is timbre entirely unimportant these days and do most listeners just want a pretty tone, regardless if it's real

It certainly plays a part for my selection but I found it's often more subjective and genre specific. To my ears half the enjoyment of jazz and classical music is dependent on how natural the instrument sound. It doesn't matter how wide the staging or how fast the driver is if it sounded overly dry/gooey/thin/metallic etc. It has to sound real and often times the definition of real may vary for each person.

(2) if you're a classical music listener and a concert-goer, do you have a favorite headphone in terms of timbre production. (Is there any summit-fi headphone that beats the HD600?)

One of the more natural sounding headphone to my ears is the ZMF Atrium. It has a very natural decay coupled with very respectable technicalities so nothing ever get lost in the mix. A touch dark in tonality but very competent in portraying acoustic instruments. Just my 2c.

That made no sense to me, as I figured headphone manufacturers and listeners know what a violin sounds like.

Drivers do have their own specific sound whether we like it or not. Even amongst dynamic driver there are some differences to be heard. Bio cellulose driver sounds vastly different from beryllium drivers particularly when it comes to transients response which can certainly affect timbre. Beryllium headphones possess a faster and sharper transients but the speed can at times have an adverse effect on decay whereas bio cellulose drivers typically have little issues with producing a natural sounding decay but do not sound as technically proficient as beryllium headphone. By no means do I endorse the claim that only dynamic driver headphone can sound natural and I would certainly be exploring more planar and estats before making a judgement call but driver does impart certain properties and can affect the sound of the instruments.

 

[paradoxper]

Now that the song is stuck in your head, I want to ask about timbre in high-end headphones. For perspective, I am a former professional classical musician, and I still have season tickets to the orchestra (actually, multiple), chamber music, opera, etc. I go to classical concerts at least once a week. For me, timbre is one of the highest priorities in headphone selection -- a trumpet should sound like a trumpet, a cello like a cello, etc.

But I'm finding that timbre seems to be a low priority in headphone design and review. Some reviewers don't talk about it all. Some put very little priority on it. When I do a search for "timbre" in titles on headfi, there are very few recent threads. One podcast I just listened to, conducting a shootout of flagships, mentioned that most people are so used to hearing dynamic drivers that they are used to the timbre produced by dynamics and can't evaluate electrostatics property. That made no sense to me, as I figured headphone manufacturers and listeners know what a violin sounds like.

I'm finding that very few modern headphones produce accurate sound. They might sound beautiful, but nothing like an actual instrument sounds. So many high-end headphones have a plasticky fake timbre.

So, I have two questions: (1) Is timbre entirely unimportant these days and do most listeners just want a pretty tone, regardless if it's real, and (2) if you're a classical music listener and a concert-goer, do you have a favorite headphone in terms of timbre production. (Is there any summit-fi headphone that beats the HD600?)

Timbre is part of the dichotomy but is also often conflated with other characteristic signatures.

If you are compulsively obsessed with realism and want the absolute most reference in playback, there is no peer to the Valkyria (whom Andrea Ricci developed with a boutique classical composition ear) not electrostats, not the best planar, nor dynamics -- and it's not even close. The notability of tonal density, weight disparity and sound viscosity,

IME you favor timbre for specific application, or concede in specific trade. Personally I listen to predominantly metal, progressive, death -- heavier dynamic cue and favor a headphone with strong bass response, high dynamic coupling and high resolution so the 1266 is my main reference.

As a poor man's Valkyria, try out the SR-009 > notably SR-007, and if possible with a DIY T2 -- that is a very, very strong electrostatic reference.

 

[chesebert]

Now that the song is stuck in your head, I want to ask about timbre in high-end headphones. For perspective, I am a former professional classical musician, and I still have season tickets to the orchestra (actually, multiple), chamber music, opera, etc. I go to classical concerts at least once a week. For me, timbre is one of the highest priorities in headphone selection -- a trumpet should sound like a trumpet, a cello like a cello, etc.

But I'm finding that timbre seems to be a low priority in headphone design and review. Some reviewers don't talk about it all. Some put very little priority on it. When I do a search for "timbre" in titles on headfi, there are very few recent threads. One podcast I just listened to, conducting a shootout of flagships, mentioned that most people are so used to hearing dynamic drivers that they are used to the timbre produced by dynamics and can't evaluate electrostatics property. That made no sense to me, as I figured headphone manufacturers and listeners know what a violin sounds like.

I'm finding that very few modern headphones produce accurate sound. They might sound beautiful, but nothing like an actual instrument sounds. So many high-end headphones have a plasticky fake timbre.

So, I have two questions: (1) Is timbre entirely unimportant these days and do most listeners just want a pretty tone, regardless if it's real, and (2) if you're a classical music listener and a concert-goer, do you have a favorite headphone in terms of timbre production. (Is there any summit-fi headphone that beats the HD600?)

With EQ some TOTL can best 600/650 in timbre. I said many times almost all TOTL now on the market sound broken without EQ (CRBN and HE1 sound the most correct to me). Older generation Audeze planar also sound generally right but not the current copies of Audeze.

 

[chesebert]

I love good timbre in my headphones. It’sa big part of what makes me keep a pair. Particularly timbre of lower register strings, French horns and double reed instruments. I was never a pro musician, but I was a pretty darned good amateur trumpet player in my younger days, so whenever I hear a really interesting instrument that sounds like I remember when they used to play a few chairs over it gives me the tingles.

Susvara does a great job of timbre, imo, and so does the Atrium. Most of my cans do, but off the top of my head those two stand out.

Also darn you to heck. I’ve got a 3-year-old and a Lin-Manuel Miranda obsession so that song doesn’t need much prompting to take up extended residence in my brain.

HFM HEK and up all have screwed up frequency response and bad timbre reproduction without EQ. Do you play any non horn and non amplified instrument or go to see your local orchestra?

 

[seacard]

HFM HEK and up all have screwed up frequency response and bad timbre reproduction without EQ. Do you play any non horn and non amplified instrument or go to see your local orchestra?

I, too, find most modern planars slightly off. I've owned the Susvara (and have the HE1K coming), currently own the LCD-4, and have tried a number of others, and they don't sound quite right.

The Verite and the Atrium are high on my list -- I will have to grab a pair and audition them.

Has anybody tried the Hedd Heddphone? Is that a worthy competitor?

 

[DeweyCH]

I, too, find most modern planars slightly off. I've owned the Susvara (and have the HE1K coming), currently own the LCD-4, and have tried a number of others, and they don't sound quite right.

The Verite and the Atrium are high on my list -- I will have to grab a pair and audition them.

Has anybody tried the Hedd Heddphone? Is that a worthy competitor?

I demoed the Heddphone. Wasn’t a fan, but at the time I don’t think I had an amp that did it justice. It’s also the single most uncomfortable pair of headphones I’ve ever worn. Other than maybe the HE6SEv2 with the stock headband.

 

[DeweyCH]

HFM HEK and up all have screwed up frequency response and bad timbre reproduction without EQ. Do you play any non horn and non amplified instrument or go to see your local orchestra?

I play the trumpet, French horn and guitar, both electric and acoustic, and yes I go see the Boston Symphony Orchestra a couple of times a year as well as the Boston Ballet.

 

[chesebert]

I play the trumpet, French horn and guitar, both electric and acoustic, and yes I go see the Boston Symphony Orchestra a couple of times a year as well as the Boston Ballet.

I guess we just hear differently.

 

[DeweyCH]

I guess we just hear differently.

Funny how that works sometimes ain’t it?

 

[Chefguru]

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hav...ars-audeze-crbn-vs-joseph-grado-hp-2i.962894/

 

[tutetibiimperes]

One of the more natural sounding headphone to my ears is the ZMF Atrium. It has a very natural decay coupled with very respectable technicalities so nothing ever get lost in the mix. A touch dark in tonality but very competent in portraying acoustic instruments. Just my 2c.

I need to hear the Atrium, but one of the biggest issues I have with my Auteur is the decay. It seems to add a certain amount of woody resonance that extends the decay in an unnatural way, I’m always reminded that I’m listening to headphones instead of listening to music for the first hour or two every time I go back to them.

Personally I’ve found that planars tend to have the most natural timbre, though they do often need some EQ. That ultra-quick decay and quick transient response means they’re not adding anything of their own sound to the signal, I’m just hearing the music and not the headphone.

 

[DenverW]

I am a big fan of timbre, and I actually love the auteur for it. However, I will say that I prefer the harder woods (my auteur is a cocobolo wood) that have less decay than the softer woods like cherry. What type of wood was the auteur that you tried? I doubt it will make an enormous difference, but the difference is there.