[GuiltyRocker]

Thanks for the tip on Parasound. I'll check that out!!

Check out the JC-1+ monos, or if you want stereo check out the JC-5, I also use their analog preamp designed by Curl as well, the JC-2.

 

[ecwl]

The one exception was, I found the MSB very pleasant to coexist with. The MSB room played a wide selection of genres of music and it all sounded... "sweet" would be a good word. But for me it was a similar sensation to listening to a tube amp; it felt like something euphonic was happening to please your brain, as opposed to the Chord stuff which seems to get out of the way and it's what's going on in the music itself that drives your emotions.

I think all R2R DACs, like tube amps and vinyl, have 2nd harmonic distortions that leads to a warmer sound with an artificially wider soundstage. I can see how this is charming as I remember when I was at the Seoul International Audio Show, 90% of the exhibitors tuned their system this way. I think a lot of the local audiophiles here prefer that sound too when I visit stereo stores and hear about their sonic preferences.

And I can see especially with very old recordings, that extra bit of warmth can make the album more listenable.

But for me, I just want to hear what's recorded, with the accurate transients and timbre. So I'm going to stick with digital and Chord and solid state amps. The biggest challenge with digital I find is jitter and RF noise (leading to noise floor modulation digital harshness) and Chord solved the jitter problem and an optical source feeding Chord solved my RF noise problem. When you don't have noise floor modulation, you don't need 2nd harmonic distortion warmth to smooth out the digital sound.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I think all R2R DACs, like tube amps and vinyl, have 2nd harmonic distortions that leads to a warmer sound with an artificially wider soundstage. I can see how this is charming as I remember when I was at the Seoul International Audio Show, 90% of the exhibitors tuned their system this way. I think a lot of the local audiophiles here prefer that sound too when I visit stereo stores and hear about their sonic preferences.

And I can see especially with very old recordings, that extra bit of warmth can make the album more listenable.

But for me, I just want to hear what's recorded, with the accurate transients and timbre. So I'm going to stick with digital and Chord and solid state amps. The biggest challenge with digital I find is jitter and RF noise (leading to noise floor modulation digital harshness) and Chord solved the jitter problem and an optical source feeding Chord solved my RF noise problem. When you don't have noise floor modulation, you don't need 2nd harmonic distortion warmth to smooth out the digital sound.

Perfectly said.

 

[AnalogEuphoria]

In general, I just don’t get/like non-Chord DACs. Like @FunkyBassMan, I listened to Wadax at a show and to me, it just sounds like a super refined DAC chip DAC with great power supply, low jitter clocking so you can high SNR and low noise floor with lots of details except you still have the inherent issue of digital harshness from noise floor modulation and the timing inaccuracy of low tap length upsampling leading to poor transient reconstruction and inaccurate timbre.

I’m not keen on the look it reminds me of a modern car dashboard

 

[FunkyBassMan]

I’m not keen on the look it reminds me of a modern car dashboard

I'd like to have a DAC designer explain to me what on God's green earth a DAC needs inside it to weigh 172 pounds? I mean, it's not like it's a 1000 watt power amp.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I'd like to have a DAC designer explain to me what on God's green earth a DAC needs inside it to weigh 172 pounds? I mean, it's not like it's a 1000 watt power amp.

Basically the case, it's a statement piece and they overdid the case work. To me this is just like MSB, let's give you a nice case and charge you an obscene amount of money. This is targeting people with money to burn that don't necessarily know what real music sounds like, like the typical hedge fund manager or trust baby that wants bragging rights. Ridiculous.

 

[SoupRKnowva]

Another tip for solid state amplifiers. Coda Technologies. I haven't ever liked Pass Labs, they always sound pretty boring/dead to me. I had a Benchmark ahb-2 I liked alot more. But a year and half ago I bought a Coda No.8 and fell in love from first listen. its the best solid state speaker amp ive heard, not that I have a ton of experience with loads of others, but based on my reading there wasn't anything peaking my interesting. It was a risk cause I didn't know anyone that had one, so I had no direct impressions, just from reading the few bits and pieces here and there. I also bought from a dealer that said I could return it if it wasn't better than what I had.

Alas, not only did I not return it, I ordered their statement amp, the 16.0, the Monday after my No.8 arrived. Can't recommend checking out Coda Technologies gear enough. They were started by some of the other guys that left threshold at the same time as Nelson Pass. I run my MDave straight into the single ended inputs on the amp.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

To me this is just like MSB, let's give you a nice case and charge you an obscene amount of money. This is targeting people with money to burn that don't necessarily know what real music sounds like, like the typical hedge fund manager or trust baby that wants bragging rights. Ridiculous.

...you find the casework for MSB to be overkill? Kind of a silly statement, really, although I recognize most of your venom was directed at the Wadax form-factor. At least one doesn't need a custom Chord "rack" to stack MSB gear, if stacking is desired.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

...you find the casework for MSB to be overkill? Kind of a silly statement, really, although I recognize most of your venom was directed at the Wadax form-factor. At least one doesn't need a custom Chord "rack" to stack MSB gear, if stacking is desired.

The MSB is not as crazy, but the price is for their top end stuff, $90k? No thanks, that is just ridiculous, especially with how poor it sounds and I've heard it over 10 times. The Wadax to me looks very ugly, can't comment on the sound as I haven't listened to it. But that price tag?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I don't care for the Wadax look either, and have not heard it. However, I do own the MSB Reference dac/Digital Director, as well as a DAVE, which I modified with the SJ DC4 and cap board, and a Denefrips DD to defeat stock USB input flow. The DAVE is very enjoyable (to me) when modified, but (to me) the MSB Ref (even without the DD) is significantly more musical. Significantly more musical. Also, significantly more money, although I am not a hedge-fund manager or silver-spoon fella. Just a retired geezer who likes music.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

...I don't care for the Wadax look either, and have not heard it. However, I do own the MSB Reference dac/Digital Director, as well as a DAVE, which I modified with the SJ DC4 and cap board, and a Denefrips DD to defeat stock USB input flow. The DAVE is very enjoyable (to me) when modified, but (to me) the MSB Ref (even without the DD) is significantly more musical. Significantly more musical. Also, significantly more money, although I am not a hedge-fund manager or silver-spoon fella. Just a retired geezer who likes music.

Glad you like it, it's a beautiful piece as well. What speakers and amps you use?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I have Magico A5s. Amplification is a pair if Luxman m900s with their c900 control amp.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

...I have Magico A5s. Amplification is a pair if Luxman m900s with their c900 control amp.

Very nice, I have to say, I have never ever heard Luxman sound bad with any speaker, their amplifiers are really amazing, great choice. I once heard MSB sound really incredible, it was with a pair of Rockport speakers and Einstein amplifiers, that combination was killer.

 

[thePhones]

Coming back to a more “Watts up” related topic… I hope that the new M Scaler has a more complex (with more settings) version of the Mojo 2 eq. I don’t know if this is even technically possible or if it has to be done inside the DAC, but since Dave does not have this feature and it is intended for Dave it would be nice if this could be added that way.

 

[AnyDave]

Another tip for solid state amplifiers. Coda Technologies. I haven't ever liked Pass Labs, they always sound pretty boring/dead to me. I had a Benchmark ahb-2 I liked alot more. But a year and half ago I bought a Coda No.8 and fell in love from first listen. its the best solid state speaker amp ive heard, not that I have a ton of experience with loads of others, but based on my reading there wasn't anything peaking my interesting. It was a risk cause I didn't know anyone that had one, so I had no direct impressions, just from reading the few bits and pieces here and there. I also bought from a dealer that said I could return it if it wasn't better than what I had.

Alas, not only did I not return it, I ordered their statement amp, the 16.0, the Monday after my No.8 arrived. Can't recommend checking out Coda Technologies gear enough. They were started by some of the other guys that left threshold at the same time as Nelson Pass. I run my MDave straight into the single ended inputs on the amp.

A couple of decades ago, I had a Coda System 100. I really enjoyed it at the time.