Violectric V800 DAC
Aug 9, 2010 at 12:55 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 31

santacore

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Just got a fresh V800 in for review thanks to Robert at Aphrodite Cu29. Apparently I'm the first person in the US besides Robert to hear it. Initial impressions are very positive! I'm already thinking about selling the Apogee Rosetta that I'm currently using. Here are a few pic's for now. Some form of review will follow soon.
 

 
Aug 9, 2010 at 1:33 AM Post #2 of 31
Nice man!  I am anxious to read your review on it.  I like how it has a volume control+XLR outs.
 
I was just looking at their website tempted to try out the v181 as well....since I have so many 4-pin headphone cables ready to go.  
 
Aug 9, 2010 at 1:58 AM Post #3 of 31
 
 
Quote:
I was just looking at their website tempted to try out the v181 as well....since I have so many 4-pin headphone cables ready to go

One of those might just make it into the house too.
wink_face.gif

 
So far Violectric is really impressing me. When they get more exposure they are definitely going to give Apogee, Lavry, and Benchmark a run for there money. 
 
Aug 9, 2010 at 5:35 PM Post #5 of 31
It's an adjustable output level, some how in the digital domain. When the knob is fully clockwise you get full output, and full resolution. As it's lowered, it not only lowers output level, but apparently you loose resolution. There are also internal dip switches that adjust the levels in bigger steps.
 
Aug 9, 2010 at 7:19 PM Post #6 of 31


Quote:
It's an adjustable output level, some how in the digital domain. When the knob is fully clockwise you get full output, and full resolution. As it's lowered, it not only lowers output level, but apparently you loose resolution. There are also internal dip switches that adjust the levels in bigger steps.


You could always ask them at which level it loses resolution and at what bitrate.  For practical purposes, it may not make any difference unless you listen at very low levels.
 
Aug 10, 2010 at 10:14 AM Post #7 of 31


Quote:
You could always ask them at which level it loses resolution and at what bitrate.  For practical purposes, it may not make any difference unless you listen at very low levels.


If I remember correctly, for every 3dB of attenuation with a digital volume control, you lose 1-bit of resolution, so you don't want to turn it down by much.
 
Aug 10, 2010 at 1:40 PM Post #8 of 31


Quote:
If I remember correctly, for every 3dB of attenuation with a digital volume control, you lose 1-bit of resolution, so you don't want to turn it down by much.


In the case of the Logitech Transporter, If you are only playing 16 bit audio (and it has twin 24-bit DACs) you can attenuate it to a degree without a loss in quality, according to them.  They claim -32dB of attenuation will still give you a bit perfect signal, but I think it's more like -24dB.
 
Aug 11, 2010 at 3:34 PM Post #12 of 31
Yep, agree with you on the Aphrodite site. Unique and a bit confusing.
 
Regarding the Violectric vs. Apogee Rosetta. The biggest thing I noticed was a big improvement in low mids and bass. The Apogee was a little flabby and the Violectric is very solid and tight. A light high end harshness is also gone, as well as a general focusing of whole spectrum. It's just a better DAC, plain and simple.
 
Aug 16, 2010 at 3:34 AM Post #13 of 31
Some words about digital volume control …
  
The benefit of digital volume control at first glance is, that there will be no more scratching,
there will be no channel mismatch, there will be no crosstalk issues any more.

Digital volume control can be made with up-down buttons or
incrementals or real potentiometers – like Violectric does.

In that case a linear tapper is used, because the volume control itself is made dB-linear inside the D/A converter.
As this mirrors a “real life” feeling only imperfect when turning the potentiometer,
we added some resistors to “bend” the responding law from the potentiometer to have a nearly perfect analog feeling. 

A simple DC voltage is attenuated by the pot. The result is fed to a A/D converter, here a digital control signal
is made to attenuate the digital audio signal inside the D/A converter BEFORE converting it to analog.

A digital 24 bit signal represents a dynamic range of 144 dB – much more than can be found in real life !!
People who are doing real world recordings can tell, that it is nearly impossible to record more than 60 dB dynamic range
with a microphone - although microphone makers claim dynamic ranges from their mics to be more that 130 dB.
This may be true when recording a cricket near a starting F-14 Tomcat. But - who needs that.

Also, sitting in you living room, it is hard to follow dynamic ranges of more that 20 – 30 dB unattanuated without
having trouble with your neighbourhood afterwards.
Today´s pop music´s dynamic range is reduced during recording to 2 – 3 dB …

Please also note that harmonic distortion inside the signal cannot be smaller than the dynamic range.
It is not possible to have 100 dB THD (0,001%) with 90 dB dynamic range,
but it is possible to have 110 dB THD (0,0003%) with 120 dB dynamic range !

The CD format offers 16 bit which means a dynamic range of 96 dB and distortions which cannot be lower than 0,0016%.
A 24 bit signal offers a dynamic range of 144 dB with theoretical minimum distortions at 0,00001%.
This is not possible to achieve in real life.
The best today AD converters offer dynamic ranges from 120 dB with distortion figures about –110 dB THD.
Lots of losses have to be faced during recording, editing, mixing …   

Digital attenuation is done by shifting the signal from MSB (Most-Significant-Bit) to LSB (Least-Significant-Bit).
Shifting a complete bit in LSB direction (and replacing it with a 0) means 6 dB attenuation.
When a 16 bit CD signal is input to a 24 bit DA converter, this signal may be attenuated
by 6dB x 8 Bit = 48 dB = factor 200:1 WITHOUT changing anything from the original data.

We learned from the above that also a real 24 bit signal carries a maximum of
20 “senseful” bits - in practice there are no more than 18 bits.
So, also a 24 bit signal may be attenuated by a minimum of 6dB x 4 Bit = 24 dB = factor 35:1 WITHOUT doing any harm to the original data.

So – for our opinion - digital attenuation is the best what can happen to a signal (except not being attenuated).

Of coarse provisions should be made to adapt different working levels in the audio chain.
It makes no sense to have a DA converter which offers its technical data only when dramatic amounts of output voltage is present on its outputs.
And because you need only 1 or 2 of these volts you are forced to always digitally attenuate the signal in advance.
The maximum output level from a DA converter should be adjusted in the analog make-up circuitry between
DA chip and output sockets without changing output impedances and without using special measuring equipment.
Afterwards, attenuating the signal digitally will not be an issue at all.   

 
Aug 20, 2010 at 1:58 PM Post #15 of 31


Quote:
Thank you! Below is a better pic. By the way, I bought the V800, and sold my Apogee. Yep, it's that good.
 

 
Have you compared it to any other dacs other than the Apogee?  eg Mytek, RME, Lynx, Lavry
 
Have you compared the sound of the USB input compared to the coax and balanced?
 
 

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