[mystaiced]

Has one used Ultrasonic cleaning to clean up their vinyl? I have the Humminguru Ultrasonic Cleaner. But it's very slow due to only being able to clean 1 at a time. It works fine for what it is. I was able to 12 records, but it took me 3 hours with 15 minutes per record.

Just wondering if there is a better solution out there.

 

[]eep]

would love to see measurements of cartridges.

I understand this desire, but measurements are usually meaningless without proper interpretation. It's a tool, not an end. This is not ever emphasized enough. What goes missing if you conflate a tool for and endgoal is what you see on ASR.

Also, there are to many variables on the user side under their control (hopefully) that totally affect any characteristics that you can see on any lab test. Plus that records through history and even now (mastering+pressing) vary greatly, making these measurements less valuable.

What turntable do you use? What arm? ( Length, material, mass, bearings, friction, maybe tangential?) What cable? (Length, capacity, connections). Adjustment done with how much precision? How adjustable is you phono amplifier, how does it perform? Characteristics?

And then there's the change over time: wear and damper evolution.

So what do you want to get from measurements? A frequency graph? Tracking? Channel separation? How much VTA changes with more VTF? Or what the result is?

So to counter your position: I don't care very much about measurements. And I'm trained as a lab analist. And engineer. I can tell more from materials and construction than from measurements how something is going to perform.

PS: measurements are a tool for engineering but always get hijacked and taken hostage by the marketing department (ie the professional lyers).

 

[]eep]

Has one used Ultrasonic cleaning to clean up their vinyl? I have the Humminguru Ultrasonic Cleaner. But it's very slow due to only being able to clean 1 at a time. It works fine for what it is. I was able to 12 records, but it took me 3 hours with 15 minutes per record.

Just wondering if there is a better solution out there.

Dang. That's more industrious than industrial scale. Well, "you wanted a hobby" as they say over here.

I know there are several bigger models out there, also for more at a time. But not at the same cost as a hummingbird.

Or maybe you can hire one of those bus travelers to operate it for you. I hear they're getting schooling from the mayor. I bet they know how a hummingbird works. I know, it's (all!) a sick joke. But a day without laughing is a day without living.

 

[mbphotox]

To be honest, that's exactly what I'd love to see.

How does the frequency response and channel separation look?
And how does it change with tracking force, alignment, capacitance, loading impedance, with another slip mat, etc.

So many elitists swear on being able to hear the tiniest differences (e.g. using a different rubber feet) but basically refuse to acknowledge what you pointed out right there..

tracking force alone has a huge impact, imo.
I'd love to have measurements to see the actual impact those things have.

e.g. loading impedance massively impacts treble on MC carts, I feel like.
But how massive is it actually?

 

[mbphotox]

Has one used Ultrasonic cleaning to clean up their vinyl? I have the Humminguru Ultrasonic Cleaner. But it's very slow due to only being able to clean 1 at a time. It works fine for what it is. I was able to 12 records, but it took me 3 hours with 15 minutes per record.

Just wondering if there is a better solution out there.

you don't need to run full 15min cycles, actially.

if they are new, without fingerprints, etc. just do the short cycle.
used records with grimey prints, I'd first run through a spin clean or knosti real quick, then into the humminguru.. maybe 5min x 2?


I wanted to buy a Humminguru myself, but the shipping, taxes, and customs put me off.

 

[mystaiced]

you don't need to run full 15min cycles, actially.

if they are new, without fingerprints, etc. just do the short cycle.
used records with grimey prints, I'd first run through a spin clean or knosti real quick, then into the humminguru.. maybe 5min x 2?


I wanted to buy a Humminguru myself, but the shipping, taxes, and customs put me off.

They were really grimey. They were from a friend's father who recently passed away. The record jackets were all mildew and trashed. So I threw the jackets all away. But the records were decent. So I ran them all through spin clean first. Then the Humminguru. Just seems like it spins too fast, so 3 cycles of 5 minutes gives each 1/3 of the record more contact time.

 

[]eep]

To be honest, that's exactly what I'd love to see.

How does the frequency response and channel separation look?
And how does it change with tracking force, alignment, capacitance, loading impedance, with another slip mat, etc.

So many elitists swear on being able to hear the tiniest differences (e.g. using a different rubber feet) but basically refuse to acknowledge what you pointed out right there..

tracking force alone has a huge impact, imo.
I'd love to have measurements to see the actual impact those things have.

e.g. loading impedance massively impacts treble on MC carts, I feel like.
But how massive is it actually?

It feels to me you're seeking for a shortcut for comprehensive understanding on all aspects of all cartridges. But not a specific cartridge. You won't get that comprehensive research with every single cartridge review.

Compare that to speaker reviews. You never get a complete rundown of the insides, filter, impedence, radiation pattern per driver, impulse response, consequences etc etc. You can write a book on that for every speaker. And guess what? There are plenty of books on speaker building. If you read all of them so you can start building your own, garner experience and a unique view... That's a lot of effort. Lots of investment. You don't want to go e that away for free.

Similarly for vinyl reproduction. You don't want to give away all your secret recipes it took you decades to understand.

And like I hinted already: a site like ASR is a useless mouthpiece for the idolization of marketing tools without understanding of what the object of their reverence is exactly.

So, you might want figures. But you don't know how to interpret them. So what is it exactly what you want? Knowledge or wisdom? There is no such thing as instant wisdom.

To come back to your statement on MC cartridges and loading. Not true the way you say. Loading has totally different effects. It affects size, scale and damping. You need at least 10x the cartridge internal impedance.
With MM carts capacitance really does affect treble above, say 10k. Cable geometry has a big effect here.

Variation in tracking force not only changes the effect of force but also the tracking angle. If you push on the cantilever it gives, pivoting around the suspension the stylus will tilt. With a conical that makes no difference, but with any super elliptical it will change HF and sibilance. But which causes what if you change 2 variables at the same time?

You can't capture that in a review.

 

[]eep]

Has one used Ultrasonic cleaning to clean up their vinyl? I have the Humminguru Ultrasonic Cleaner. But it's very slow due to only being able to clean 1 at a time. It works fine for what it is. I was able to 12 records, but it took me 3 hours with 15 minutes per record.

Just wondering if there is a better solution out there.

I had a look on the Chinese site and I found an ultrasonic cleaner with several specs, one that can do 6 lp's at a time rotating 4rpm. It costs ~ €300 (- 21% vat). I have no idea how good it it but I suspect it's 'just another' ultrasonic cleaner with a specialised dipper/rotator application for lp's.

 

[]eep]

I made a photo that says exactly nothing, other than that I actually have it.

No specs other than some basic things on a sticker in Mandarin.

0.35 mV 4 Ohm
>32dB +/-0.5dB
1.7-2.3 g
Pretty basic but very good and practical.

Some extra pictures. It's very hard to capture the sapphire cantilever.
EDIT1: I looked at it from several angles but this is not sapphire. Looks more like boron. It's very thin and has a bit of taper near the beginning. Not transparent. Disappointed That is why I bought it really. It will probably sound ok. I'm not worried about that.
EDIT1: I wrote them, tried a positive angle. Afterward I realised; I bought this because of the price (stated incl 21% VAT in the app) at 880€. There is another seller that has the same products at roughly similar (but higher) pricesthat sells the one I wanted for €1130. I have the sneaking suspicion the difference is not just price difference for shops but the real sapphire cantilever one vs a boron model. €250 difference sounds about right. So it's not that I got ripped off, just sold on false pretense.
I also had a close look at the stylus with a 60x diamond microscope, it's a square nude shank with a very sharp triangular flat shape, so it is shibata I think. Very unlike the very rounded 'super ellipticals' that already sound really good.

You can see that the carbon is not just a flimsy cover. And the mounting block for the pins is massive ebony. These cartridges are really well made and a steal for the price. But if they want to be taken seriously they have to avoid this kind of stupid sloppy mistakes.

The mounting plate is really heavy, solid steel (I haven't tested if it's magnetic, probably not).

 

[]eep]

would love to see measurements of cartridges.

Here's a page in your book. A good write-up on stylus shapes. If you read carefully you will also understand specs are rather useless if you don't align properly.


https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/audiophile-insights/analog-insights/phono-cartridge-stylus-shapes/

I was looking this up to see a photo of a Shibata shape (not a drawing). Mine looks exactly like the groove photo right one.

 

[mbphotox]

yeah, that's why I love my DL-103R... spherical shape.. simple and forgiving to set up
(I'd just go crazy thinking I could've potentially done better with the set-up with a shibata or microline)

 

[]eep]

yeah, that's why I love my DL-103R... spherical shape.. simple and forgiving to set up
(I'd just go crazy thinking I could've potentially done better with the set-up with a shibata or microline)

I'm not sure if I can follow that logic. Let me make an analogy to see if I get it.
You are happy to stay on horseback because you're anxious you can't properly inflate the tyres of an EV? I do agree that a horse is the most intelligent self driving vehicle that is most unlikely to spontaneously self-ignite into a raging fire.

I think the rewards of a better stylus far outweigh the possibility of not getting it -quite- right. Also, the more practice you get, the better you get at it. And also, you'll get better at finetuning on hearing. Instead of hollowing the manual. Just like cooking. You start out following the recipe, but when you get better you don't need a cookbook anymore and do things the way you like it.

You don't need many or expensive tools to do it. When I bought my Linn Axis I got a printed protractor with it. And that was it. You can get them free on vinyl engine. Add a little mirror for checking azimuth. And an $10 electronic scale. It doesn't need to be accurate to 0.05g. It doesn't matter if you're 0.1g off.

You need to learn to do finetuning by ear. I'm just starting to learn to do anti-skating by ear. It is actually the difference in tracking force between left and right. So if you get distortion in 1 channel near the end of the record you need to adjust it a bit less or more and listen again. If you do it properly it's an iteration process. Start with big steps and go back and forth in ever smaller steps till you find a good middle. +10 -7 +4 -3 +1 -1 +1 got it. Like that.

With a spherical stylus you're not just 'never wrong' but also never perfect. With a microline you can be wrong, or a lot more right. And when you get a microscope and maybe an oscilloscope (needn't be over $100) you can get close to perfect. I still need one of those USB microscopes that'll allow me to see the needle in the groove. Those things are quite cheap.

What I would like to see, to learn, is to properly tune a stylus by ear. How do the experts do it. Measurements or specs are useless if you know how to do that. Or send your cartridge to Wally Tools to measure it for you and install their custom made for that cart kit to get perfect alignment.

 

[mbphotox]

of course, you can theoretically get better results with a microline stylus..

but if I want perfect reproduction, I just slap an SACD into my player and call it a day.

Vinyl is about the experience for me. I'm perfectly aware of the massive shortcomings of the medium, so I won't bother trying to squeeze every last drop out of it.
I want to watch my cartridge glide through the grooves and play music.

the Denon DL-103R is not a bad cartridge. I'd go as far as claiming that it's damn near perfect, because it sounds so nice and smooth with any material. ("forgiving" jumps to mind)


some day, I might get a Hana SL, but for now, I'm perfectly happy with my spherical diamond.

 

[]eep]

I just watched this video by Melinda. With her charm and openness she talks about transformers. A Unique video. Her husband provided her with a double blind test. But from experience I know, the improvement isn't subtle. Even if her Rega phono-amp is no slouch.

 

[]eep]

of course, you can theoretically get better results with a microline stylus..

but if I want perfect reproduction, I just slap an SACD into my player and call it a day.

Vinyl is about the experience for me. I'm perfectly aware of the massive shortcomings of the medium, so I won't bother trying to squeeze every last drop out of it.
I want to watch my cartridge glide through the grooves and play music.

the Denon DL-103R is not a bad cartridge. I'd go as far as claiming that it's damn near perfect, because it sounds so nice and smooth with any material. ("forgiving" jumps to mind)


some day, I might get a Hana SL, but for now, I'm perfectly happy with my spherical diamond.

I'm not trying to sell you anything. But look at this picture from the article on shapes I shared.

If you look at the contact area. Small area means more surface pressure causing higher wear halfway down the groove. The right stylus will cause much less wear with its large contact surface area. And also traces a lot of area that has never been touched on records previously used with a spherical stylus. That means a lot less surface noise ànd improved treble. Instead of attenuated noise and treble.


And then I didn't even mention stylus life, which is MC cartridge life. The numbers I read vary greatly from 400 to 5000 hours. I didn't keep count but I played my Koetsu for 8 years. Advanced stylus shapes really last a lot longer than spherical. (as the article confirms).

When I want perfect sound I put on an LP. Digital (DSD) sounds close but nowhere near the realism and detail.
The only genre that I sort of prefer digital is classical music.