[iamoneagain]

I'll just keep checking in lol

--------

Spent most of yesterday afternoon comparing the L3000 and Caldera. I did also listen to the Utopia, but I actually just got a bit lost in them and the music and didn't compare them lol. It's really remarkable just how similar the L3000 and Caldera are. Very similar presentations. Probably the most redundant group of headphones I've ever had. I prefer the L3000 slightly, as it has just a bit more clarity in the midrange, particularly evidenced with vocals. They sound just a bit clearer and natural. Besides that, they are pretty similar.

I think I would amend two previous statements: 1) I don't think the Caldera is more open than the L3000, they almost like dead on with positioning and staging; 2) It's honestly really hard comparing the bass, again very similar and hard to pick one over the other, but I'll keep comparing this. I think the other day I mentioned that I had the Caldera ahead.

I can't see myself owning both of these long term, but no immediate rush to move one. It would be the Caldera, but they are very close in performance. I think it's actually cool that a headphone is now out there that has a similar style and presentation. I am a huge fan of the Caldera. Lastly, didn't get around to changing the pads just yet, wanted to keep the stock for the consistency.

Thanks for update. I really didn’t realize they sounded that similar. Could explain why I’m such a fan. But I’m a sucker for punchy headphones with rich mids. Curious about some of the other ZMF headphones out there but don’t think any would be as resolving as the Caldera.

As far as pad changing, I’m already back to the stock. Even though there’s something special about the suede, I think I find soundstage a little too close. Maybe on a different setup it would open up a bit. But it is nice to know that option available. Surprised just the material has that much effect on the sound.

The thing about the L3000 is I just got worried about them failing and no way to replace them, so wanted to sell while they still held their value. ZMF may not be the same collectors item but they are amazing to look at and have lifetime warranty on the drivers. Think most of the other parts are interchangeable and can be replaced. I suppose I could have waited for limited edition wood series but still not the same as an owning a L3000 or PS-1.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Thanks for update. I really didn’t realize they sounded that similar. Could explain why I’m such a fan. But I’m a sucker for punchy headphones with rich mids. Curious about some of the other ZMF headphones out there but don’t think any would be as resolving as the Caldera.

Yea the Caldera is a step up from the VC (which for the price I really liked), and I have the Atrium now, and I'm a bit underwhelmed with it--but that's really only because of the Caldera's performance.

As far as pad changing, I’m already back to the stock. Even though there’s something special about the suede, I think I find soundstage a little too close. Maybe on a different setup it would open up a bit. But it is nice to know that option available. Surprised just the material has that much effect on the sound.

The thing about the L3000 is I just got worried about them failing and no way to replace them, so wanted to sell while they still held their value. ZMF may not be the same collectors item but they are amazing to look at and have lifetime warranty on the drivers. Think most of the other parts are interchangeable and can be replaced. I suppose I could have waited for limited edition wood series but still not the same as an owning a L3000 or PS-1.

Good to know on the pads. I may hold of on trying them then lol. Totally get it regarding longevity and vintage headphones. AT wouldn't even entertain replacing my broken L3000 drivers with any others when I sent it back to them. Definitely a risk. Thankfully, the Caldera is there, so it's an option should something ever happen to my pair.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I know I'm late, but a few pics from the last comparison. Really amazed at the level of difference between the fenestrated and original pads on the L3000, have been using quite a bit more since. All of these are very good, without any major flaw or annoyance--at least not to me. I think all of them are just one very, very slight half step behind in ultimate technical performance than the TC/Sr1a/009/Susvara, but have some other strengths over them.. especially when it comes to a unique, intimate and forward presentation, along with a more natural tone (L3000 particularly on the tone). Very great complements to a more analytical stat or planar imo.

Spending quite a bit of time today with my stat rig, HE60 to start and 007 now. With the right music, the HE60 is still really special, but it's a bit limited and I think I need to make a playlist specifically for them so I use them much more. I've spent a lot more time with the 007 today and I just continue to be amazed at how much better it is on the T2 than I have ever heard. These got barely any use on the BHSE, Woo Wes.. and even though good on the Aeras, I wasn't wow'd like I am now. I'll again restate that I've been harder on them than I should've been, they just scale tremendously. I would think they'd do really well on the right version of the CRBN as well.

Lastly, I know I don't talk about the HE90 much, but it is phenomenal. It's just very expensive and the most vintage/rare/hard to replace item I have, so I do keep it put up quite a bit lol. I use it about 1-2x a week. Will be breaking it out today. Will snap some more pics.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Thoughts later between these.

Also, the random gap between the two amps on the shelf is because I needed to raise my phono preamp in-between them to try vinyl out with my headphone setup, which I regularly use with my speakers. Long story short, with my very modest vinyl setup (cheap project RPM-1 w/blue ortofon cartridge--haven't invested much as it isn't my thing and just got into two years ago), headphones are just too microscopic. The same uniquely natural tone was there, but as was every imperfection--hum of the motor, crackle and pop of LPs. But I'm sure if I invested in a much better TT and absolute pristine albums, it would be worth it. May see in the future.

 

[dukeskd]

Nice shots!

 

[mulveling]

Thoughts later between these.

Also, the random gap between the two amps on the shelf is because I needed to raise my phono preamp in-between them to try vinyl out with my headphone setup, which I regularly use with my speakers. Long story short, with my very modest vinyl setup (cheap project RPM-1 w/blue ortofon cartridge--haven't invested much as it isn't my thing and just got into two years ago), headphones are just too microscopic. The same uniquely natural tone was there, but as was every imperfection--hum of the motor, crackle and pop of LPs. But I'm sure if I invested in a much better TT and absolute pristine albums, it would be worth it. May see in the future.

I dislike Project tables, honestly. I've played with them at my dealer's - they always felt too cheap and sometimes had an overt hum from poor motor isolation. I have a Fluance RT85 (among 3 much more high-end tables: $5K, 10K and $30K+) and it's nice for the $500. The Ortofon 2M Blue is actually quite a decent cartridge - a bit on the bright side, but sounds shockingly good with a Hagerman Trumpet MC ($1200 new) tube stage to warm it up. Phono stage is crucially important, and that Hagerman will compete with and beat stages 3x its price on sheer musicality. This Fluance / Hagerman combo is excellent with headphones for not much money, and also good for speakers IF you have enough isolation - the stock feet can only do so much. Yes, wet cleaning the vinyl will help.

I find good vinyl on headphones to be extremely musical, more so than digital, and definitely not "microscopic". But then the crackles and ticks and noise floor of worn vinyl never really bothered me much

 

[number1sixerfan]

I dislike Project tables, honestly. I've played with them at my dealer's - they always felt too cheap and sometimes had an overt hum from poor motor isolation. I have a Fluance RT85 (among 3 much more high-end tables: $5K, 10K and $30K+) and it's nice for the $500. The Ortofon 2M Blue is actually quite a decent cartridge - a bit on the bright side, but sounds shockingly good with a Hagerman Trumpet MC ($1200 new) tube stage to warm it up. Phono stage is crucially important, and that Hagerman will compete with and beat stages 3x its price on sheer musicality. This Fluance / Hagerman combo is excellent with headphones for not much money, and also good for speakers IF you have enough isolation - the stock feet can only do so much. Yes, wet cleaning the vinyl will help.

I find good vinyl on headphones to be extremely musical, more so than digital, and definitely not "microscopic". But then the crackles and ticks and noise floor of worn vinyl never really bothered me much

I almost mentioned you, as you were the person that inspired tryin it out.

I totally admit that it's the setup. 100%. I didn't mean that vinyl is microscopic, rather that headphones are in general and imperfections are a bit more noticeable than with the speakers I own. The natural tone and the fact that even with the cracks and pops (more so the records than the gear) was very, very close to the performance of the M-Dave, was pretty astonishing. The Project tables are known for hum and noise, which I kind of knew, but saw that people got around it with isolation feet, stabilizer weights, etc. I decided to give it a try, as the look really caught my eye and it was for my living room lol. None of that has helped honestly. Very much regret the purchase despite how good the TT actually sounds.

I see the potential for sure, but my concern is that I'll end up spending a ton of money if I go down that path lol. I heard a friend's $100k turntable setup (through speakers) and it sounded ridiculously incredible, but I cannot afford that lol. But thank you for the advice, I'm going to look into the Hagerman, and I was just actually looking at Fluance tables. At minimum, I want a setup in my headphone/music room, instead of only just normally having one in my living space. I swapped the Ortofon soon after I got the Project table (it came with the red I believe) and it made an immediate difference. Nothing at all seems to get rid of the hum however--I'm using 3 inch foam under the motor and isolation feet on the spikes.

And I just had a vinyl cleaning kit arrive today. Will try the same records right after.

 

[mulveling]

I almost mentioned you, as you were the person that inspired tryin it out.

I totally admit that it's the setup. 100%. I didn't mean that vinyl is microscopic, rather that headphones are in general and imperfections are a bit more noticeable than with the speakers I own. The natural tone and the fact that even with the cracks and pops (more so the records than the gear) was very, very close to the performance of the M-Dave, was pretty astonishing. The Project tables are known for hum and noise, which I kind of knew, but saw that people got around it with isolation feet, stabilizer weights, etc. I decided to give it a try, as the look really caught my eye and it was for my living room lol. None of that has helped honestly. Very much regret the purchase despite how good the TT actually sounds.

I see the potential for sure, but my concern is that I'll end up spending a ton of money if I go down that path lol. I heard a friend's $100k turntable setup (through speakers) and it sounded ridiculously incredible, but I cannot afford that lol. But thank you for the advice, I'm going to look into the Hagerman, and I was just actually looking at Fluance tables. At minimum, I want a setup in my headphone/music room, instead of only just normally having one in my living space. I swapped the Ortofon soon after I got the Project table (it came with the red I believe) and it made an immediate difference. Nothing at all seems to get rid of the hum however--I'm using 3 inch foam under the motor and isolation feet on the spikes.

And I just had a vinyl cleaning kit arrive today. Will try the same records right after.

That's wise to be concerned lol. When I look back, it's just crazy the time and $ invested into vinyl. Well over 100K for sure. But it's also become so 2nd nature, and unquestioned as the core pillar of how I enjoy the audio hobby: Tannoy, tubes, and vinyl - with an honorable mention shout out to Stax 009 / T2.

Have to admit the challenges can be...significant. Tracking down a hum is bad enough, but addressing structural & acoustic feedback can require black magic if you're in a tough room. My main rig in the loft has been problem free for several years, and I kind of forgot how hard TT isolation can be. So now that I'm playing with a 2nd smaller setup at my girlfriend's home - problems abound. The construction is rather poor with extremely bouncy suspended wood floors. The office I'm in is smallish, so there's nowhere for that speaker energy to go - is just energizes EVERYTHING in the room. I like to play very loud (upper 90s lol), which makes this 100x worse. I've had the feedback cause amp clipping during transient peaks, which is very bad. I'm lucky the Tannoy drivers have been able to take it (so far), but this problem needs solving. I'm not even sure yet how much of the feedback is structure-borne versus air (acoustic), but it's a problem either way. By comparison, in the main rig I have limitless dynamics with gobs of clean overhead even at concert levels. In the 2nd rig - I'm getting closer, but still got a ways to go.

If listening on headphones, at least most of the vibration management complexity drops away (unless you like to dance around), and then you need only worry about tonearm / cartridge / SUT / phono stage matching, not to mention building a vinyl collection when prices (e.g. Discogs) have gone so high

Here's the latest turntable "perch" in the small rig - trying the other side of the room, back up against my desk in the corner. We'll see how this goes. Not ready to give up yet and have to patch in a digital source (I only listen to digital via headphones, for almost 15 years now).

 

[BassicScience]

@mulveling ,

Nice setup. FWIW, my 2-channel (and headphone) system is in a smallish room with suspended wood floors, although our house is 100 years old, so the joists are thick and not particularly bouncy. I have a Basis 2500 turntable sitting atop an HRS SXR rack, and don't experience any mechanical feedback. Note that I typically don't listen quite as loud as you do, although I listen to a fair amount of music with significant bass energy. Basis and HRS products aren't inexpensive, but they are at the very top of the class for resonance control, in my experience. The high price of entry may not make sense for a second system (or even a first one, for many people), however.

 

[mulveling]

@mulveling ,

Nice setup. FWIW, my 2-channel (and headphone) system is in a smallish room with suspended wood floors, although our house is 100 years old, so the joists are thick and not particularly bouncy. I have a Basis 2500 turntable sitting atop an HRS SXR rack, and don't experience any mechanical feedback. Note that I typically don't listen quite as loud as you do, although I listen to a fair amount of music with significant bass energy. Basis and HRS products aren't inexpensive, but they are at the very top of the class for resonance control, in my experience. The high price of entry may not make sense for a second system (or even a first one, for many people), however.

That's a Critical Mass (CMS) Platinum platform it's on - same price range as HRS stuff. A lot of this was hand-me-downs from the main rig. The CMS made a big improvement and hugely cleaned up the midrange and most feedback, BUT there's only so much it can do in bass frequencies. That's where I have my remaining feedback problem - bass-heavy transients. And yeah, the high SPL level makes it quite a challenge

In the main rig I have a CMS Maxxum rack, which worked wonders and is part of why I have so much headroom there. Here in the small rig, I've just got their entry level Sotto Voce frame, and I probably should have at least gotten the shorter one!

My loft is > 160 year old commercial/industrial construction, and (I think) survived Sherman's march to Atlanta, so the floors are suspended wood but a WHOLE LOT sturdier than this crap flimsy construction at my gf's lol. I'm not sure I'll get to where I really want here, but I'm going to try a bit longer! There's a basement with concrete slab, but it's a fairly poor configuration with low ceilings.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Took the vinyl rig back out to the living room with the Klipsch Heresys. Just amazing sound, still issues with hum and vibration, but less so than through the headphones. Can't wait to eventually have a bigger, more adequate space to warrant a much nicer setup. It just sounds a touch more natural than digital, and very consistently. But I also love digital, will never do away with both.

On to another topic. Think I'm nearly closing out this round of headphone comparisons. I'd like to try one or two more before maybe clearing a bunch of stuff out and then doing some DAC comparisons into the summer maybe.

Has anyone heard/owned the DCA Stealth and/or Raal CA1a? Assuming both are a bit more similar to what I'd get out of the Expanse/Sr1a to a degree? I haven't really been interested in the CA1a only because I have the Sr1a on hand, but the feedback on it makes me think it's worth trying out, even if I don't keep it. The feedback on the Stealth is really all over the place, which is why I've never bothered owning it, but now having the Expanse and some people swearing by it have me curious.

Lastly, I should have a MySphere on loan some time soon as well. My main goal is to have tried most of the top tier headphones (by consensus) out there, as once I pivot from headphones in the not so distant future, I'm sure I won't really have the chance.

 

[iamoneagain]

Took the vinyl rig back out to the living room with the Klipsch Heresys. Just amazing sound, still issues with hum and vibration, but less so than through the headphones. Can't wait to eventually have a bigger, more adequate space to warrant a much nicer setup. It just sounds a touch more natural than digital, and very consistently. But I also love digital, will never do away with both.

On to another topic. Think I'm nearly closing out this round of headphone comparisons. I'd like to try one or two more before maybe clearing a bunch of stuff out and then doing some DAC comparisons into the summer maybe.

Has anyone heard/owned the DCA Stealth and/or Raal CA1a? Assuming both are a bit more similar to what I'd get out of the Expanse/Sr1a to a degree? I haven't really been interested in the CA1a only because I have the Sr1a on hand, but the feedback on it makes me think it's worth trying out, even if I don't keep it. The feedback on the Stealth is really all over the place, which is why I've never bothered owning it, but now having the Expanse and some people swearing by it have me curious.

Lastly, I should have a MySphere on loan some time soon as well. My main goal is to have tried most of the top tier headphones (by consensus) out there, as once I pivot from headphones in the not so distant future, I'm sure I won't really have the chance.

If you look thru the Expanse thread, Dan posted EQ setting to get it to sound very close to the Stealth. So that should give you a very good idea. It brings up its technically performance even more with bigger soundstage, precise imaging, and clarity. But it loses some warm, weight, and impact. Reminded me of the Ety Er-4S. I’ve only briefly heard the real Stealth at CanJam and just wasn’t into it. Felt no emotional connection.

 

[number1sixerfan]

If you look thru the Expanse thread, Dan posted EQ setting to get it to sound very close to the Stealth. So that should give you a very good idea. It brings up its technically performance even more with bigger soundstage, precise imaging, and clarity. But it loses some warm, weight, and impact. Reminded me of the Ety Er-4S. I’ve only briefly heard the real Stealth at CanJam and just wasn’t into it. Felt no emotional connection.

Ahh, I didn't know that. Ok, I'll trying the EQ to get a sense first. And thanks for the impressions from what you heard. Weight of the music and bass quantity/impact is where I just keep seeing conflicting things. It's making it hard to take a chance. In the Stealth thread, quite a few ppl mentioned it having stronger bass response than the Susvara, even the TC (which tbh I doubt), etc. But on the other hand, I've heard a few people mention that the impact and weight is lighter than the Expanse, which I know for a fact to be very light in general. So it's a bit confusing trying to get a read. The only variable I can understand conflating this is that I know it's apparently challenging at times to get a good seal on the Stealth, which impacts its bass response.

If it has at least the same amount of bass and impact as the Expanse, I'd be willing to take the plunge, if not, I rather hold off. I have a lot of travel coming up, but might be best to try and see if I can get to CanJam to hear them first.

 

[all2ofme]

I haven’t heard the Expanse or the CA1a, but have plenty of experience with the Susvara, Stealth, SR1a and others from Enleum, AIC-10 and CFA3 (my favourite).

The Stealth was excellent (though needed power), and if it helps () I’d describe it as being most similar to how I’d imagine a closed-back Susvara to sound. The Stealth was a nice pair of headphones, but ultimately one I sold. The Susvara was a better Susvara (duh), and I wanted a range of sounds, not a stable of a dozen headphones with oodles of overlap.

For reference, what’s staying:
- X9000
- Phi TC
- SR1a
- Audeze XC
- Meze Empyrean
- Grado RS2e

The CFA3 drives everything except the X9000, which will soon be joined by an Eksonic T2.

Hope that helps at least a wee bit.

 

[iamoneagain]

Ahh, I didn't know that. Ok, I'll trying the EQ to get a sense first. And thanks for the impressions from what you heard. Weight of the music and bass quantity/impact is where I just keep seeing conflicting things. It's making it hard to take a chance. In the Stealth thread, quite a few ppl mentioned it having stronger bass response than the Susvara, even the TC (which tbh I doubt), etc. But on the other hand, I've heard a few people mention that the impact and weight is lighter than the Expanse, which I know for a fact to be very light in general. So it's a bit confusing trying to get a read. The only variable I can understand conflating this is that I know it's apparently challenging at times to get a good seal on the Stealth, which impacts its bass response.

If it has at least the same amount of bass and impact as the Expanse, I'd be willing to take the plunge, if not, I rather hold off. I have a lot of travel coming up, but might be best to try and see if I can get to CanJam to hear them first.

For the most part the Expanse tuning is the same except for that mid-bass hump. But what’s weird is that it somehow affects the whole spectrum.

Vocals have less of chest sound to them on Stealth. To me, it sounds less natural but everything has laser precision in detail and space. And I get why people like it. But once you take a step back from its technical abilities, is it really more enjoyable? I think people say they hear more sub bass with Stealth as well. I heard on several setups at CanJam while testing my Expanse at the same time and always preferred the Expanse. It’s possible switching between the two without enough time in between had an effect on perception.