[PointyFox]

Those headphones are easily driven by the amp on my $200 soundcard and sound the nearly the same as on my $900 equivalent tube amp and $450 Heed canamp.
 
Your mini^3 can put out 30mWrms into 300ohms at 3.9Vrms, the resistance of HD6x0s. 
 
My soundcard set at the lowest voltage level at a comfortable listening level with the HD6x0s is about 26mWrms at 885mVrms. It's nearly the same quality as with 3.52Vrms and 7.03Vrms. Same with the DT880, except they require a little more power.
 
So, your amp should be able to drive these headphones well enough to compare them.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Maxvla]

30mW is pretty low headroom, but it's worth a try. On phones like we're discussing, the voltage swing is pretty important. 11V P-P is on the weak side, but of course this is a portable amp we're speaking of.

 

[nate911]

Quote:

In my experience HD600/650 aren't picky at all with amping, they just ask for the most power you can possibly muster. I'm on a 2W RMS (300ohms) amp with my HD600 and the difference between this and a lower end 350mW amp is night and day. I've tried these on a B22 to similar effect.
 

Both the HD650 and DT880/600 will use the same amp setup.

 
Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll make a thread in the DIY forum soon for an amp to use.
 
Quote:

Those headphones are easily driven by the amp on my $200 soundcard and sound the nearly the same as on my $900 equivalent tube amp and $450 Heed canamp.
 
Your mini^3 can put out 30mWrms into 300ohms at 3.9Vrms, the resistance of HD6x0s. 
 
My soundcard set at the lowest voltage level at a comfortable listening level with the HD6x0s is about 26mWrms at 885mVrms. It's nearly the same quality as with 3.52Vrms and 7.03Vrms. Same with the DT880, except they require a little more power.
 
So, your amp should be able to drive these headphones well enough to compare them.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong

 
Quote:

30mW is pretty low headroom, but it's worth a try. On phones like we're discussing, the voltage swing is pretty important. 11V P-P is on the weak side, but of course this is a portable amp we're speaking of.

Hmm alright. I'm just not sure if I'll hear the Senn "veil" without proper amplification. But if the sound sig are good enough to compare (it seems like they will be with my setup) then I'll probably just buy both and see what I think.

 

[Maxvla]

Actually it's the opposite. A lower power amp (or amp-less) will have the veil and the high power amps reduce or remove it entirely. There is no veil on my setup, while there is considerable veil when I use my HD600 on my Zune PMP.

 

[PointyFox]

I hear no "veil" out of my soundcard.  Then again, I'm not really sure what a veil sounds like.

 

[nate911]

Quote:

Actually it's the opposite. A lower power amp (or amp-less) will have the veil and the high power amps reduce or remove it entirely. There is no veil on my setup, while there is considerable veil when I use my HD600 on my Zune PMP.

Woops, maybe I said something else...that's what I meant. I'm wondering if the veil will influence my decision, because they won't be amped properly when I purchase them (now at least).

 

[Maxvla]

Quote:

Woops, maybe I said something else...that's what I meant. I'm wondering if the veil will influence my decision, because they won't be amped properly when I purchase them (now at least).

Where I was going with my comments was, since both headphones will need the same amp, build your amp and test the phones with it. Bypass the mini^3 altogether.

 

[nate911]

Quote:

Where I was going with my comments was, since both headphones will need the same amp, build your amp and test the phones with it. Bypass the mini^3 altogether.

Ahh okay. Perhaps I should do that then for now...

 

[PointyFox]

Your mini^3 should be fine. Audiophiles like to use voltage swing as a scapegoat when comparing amps.  You'll see very cheap amps with voltage swings of 40V, and expensive ones with voltage swings of 5V.  Voltage swing can only hurt the sound if it isn't sufficient.  More doesn't improve the sound, it just gives it headroom to get louder.  Voltage swing should be equal to or greater than your maximum signal x gain, otherwise parts that should be loud won't be, and the sound will be degraded.  If you can get your headphones past a comfortable listening level, your voltage swing is probably fine.  11Vpp for example, is overkill with the HD600s. 
 
"However, with the 300 ohm headphones, a higher voltage swing is needed, something on the order of 1-3 volts."
http://www.glass-ware.com/tubecircuits/Tube_Headphone_Amplifier.html
 
 
I think you will be able to use the mini^3 to compare them, as even if you didn't have enough voltage swing, most of the qualities of the headphones will remain unchanged.

 

[Maxvla]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're talking about the mini^3 not the M^3. The M^3 is a full fledged home amplifier. The mini^3 is a portable amp.
 
If voltage swing is really that small I don't know what to attribute the shocking difference in my old MKIII and my current MKVI amp.

 

[nate911]

Yeah, I have a mini^3 not an M^3.

Concerning voltage swing, the mini^3 indeed has 11Vp-p. The M^3 has only a little more at 13Vp-p (with a 27V PSU)...so I can see what you're saying about voltage swing not being the major factor when choosing amps. The M^3 does supply twice the current (I believe) than the mini^3...but I'm not sure how important that is--considering we're talking about higher impedance 'phones.
But many people say the HD650 scales up with amps all the way up to high-end setups. So basically I'm trying to determine whether I will hear most of what the HD650 has to offer (for me to make a decision) with my current Mini^3 (and grubDAC, if it matters).

 

[PointyFox]

Quote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're talking about the mini^3 not the M^3. The M^3 is a full fledged home amplifier. The mini^3 is a portable amp.
 
If voltage swing is really that small I don't know what to attribute the shocking difference in my old MKIII and my current MKVI amp.

Fixed.  I don't know what the difference between the two is.  Seems like they're completely different.
 
LD MkIII insides:
 

 
 
 
LD MkVI insides:
 

 

[PointyFox]

Quote:

Yeah, I have a mini^3 not an M^3.

Concerning voltage swing, the mini^3 indeed has 11Vp-p. The M^3 has only a little more at 13Vp-p (with a 27V PSU)...so I can see what you're saying about voltage swing not being the major factor when choosing amps. The M^3 does supply twice the current (I believe) than the mini^3...but I'm not sure how important that is--considering we're talking about higher impedance 'phones.
But many people say the HD650 scales up with amps all the way up to high-end setups. So basically I'm trying to determine whether I will hear most of what the HD650 has to offer (for me to make a decision) with my current Mini^3 (and grubDAC, if it matters).

I don't really believe what they say about the HD650.  It sounded nearly the same to me whether out of my $200 soundcard or $900 tube amp. Same with the HD600.

 

[Maxvla]

Quote:

Yeah, I have a mini^3 not an M^3.

Concerning voltage swing, the mini^3 indeed has 11Vp-p. The M^3 has only a little more at 13Vp-p (with a 27V PSU)...so I can see what you're saying about voltage swing not being the major factor when choosing amps. The M^3 does supply twice the current (I believe) than the mini^3...but I'm not sure how important that is--considering we're talking about higher impedance 'phones.
But many people say the HD650 scales up with amps all the way up to high-end setups. So basically I'm trying to determine whether I will hear most of what the HD650 has to offer (for me to make a decision) with my current Mini^3 (and grubDAC, if it matters).

You won't. 'Tis why I suggested building the amp since you narrowed it to 2 phones that share similar amping strategies, then try the 2 phones at their (hopefully, depending on your project) best.

 

[Maxvla]

Quote:

Fixed.  I don't know what the difference between the two is.  Seems like they're completely different.
 
LD MkIII insides:
 
LD MkVI insides:
 

 
They are slightly different (MKIII is SEPP OTL, MKVI is SEPP OCL), but the biggest difference is the voltage swing and power output (which is sort of saying the same thing). At 300ohms we're looking at 350mW vs 2W, and 10V vs 70V.