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Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Lol @your conclusion, I thought along these lines when reading Joe's impressions, but didn't want to put it so bluntly. Of course you realized that my question regarding the SE530 and CK100 hinted in the same direction. Now his comparison to the e-Q7 puts it a bit more in perspective. I do not mind the slight mid-forwardness of the e-Q7. But if the SM3 are less mid-forward than the Ortofons and at the same time much more forward than the FX700 - TBO, I'm not really able to imagine how they would sound then. Anyway, Joe said he has not yet come to a conclusion and I see he started a thread for the SM3s, so soon we'll know more...
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Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Lots of people like forward mids since that's supposed to be where most of the music lies. But I find if they're too forward (UM3X for example) that it becomes intrusive and I feel like I'm being shouted at. The MD's have pretty forward mids, but I found the lack of treble sparkle (as opposed to the Coppers, CK10 and TF10) left me wanting more, despite the nice vocals.
I loved the e-Q7 mids and found them just forward enough without grating on my nerves. So yes, it's hard to imagine what the SM3 mids are like if they're 'much more' forward than the FX700 and less forward than the e-Q7, since I don't find the FX700's to be thin or lacking or recessed
This is where your 'percentages expert' could have come in handy if it hadn't been for the volcanic ash disruption
Joe - I think my interpretation of 'laid back' is different to yours. You seem to be saying that laid back means further away from the audience? Whereas I think of it as a sound signature and not presentation. For example, the IE8 is laid back, because they're warm, bassy, and although they have good enough treble detail - it doesn't sparkle at all. The UM3X are laid back too, even though they're mid-forward - there's no 'bite' to the overall sound. So my understanding of laid back isn't the same as yours.
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OK, let me start by saying I (you) need to rethink how to describe typical IEM presentation. The MDs, e-Q7, GR8, IE8, FX700, CK10, etc. present the music to you, the SM3 involves you with the music, immersing you and shifting position to wherever the mics were placed. I can’t answer the question “is it more forward than IEM X?” because the SM3 has the ability to shift it’s presentation convincingly depending on what is in the music in a way my other IEMs don't. With the SM3 sometimes you are listening from the drummer’s perspective, sometimes from the singer, sometimes from a point in the audience. I have heard all sorts of locations depending on the song, and the variance in location is much larger than with my other IEMs. Also, the space of the SM3 is simply much larger and has much more versatility/ability to present the recording accurately in space.
To me, there are two parts of presentation (positioning): absolute and relative. Absolute is where you are sitting in the audience. The back of a jazz club (IE8) I would term laid back, staring the vocalist in the face (SE530) I would call forward. Relative is how each part of the spectrum is placed relative to the other. For example, I think the FX700 bass is closer to you than the mids, therefore laid back refers to laid back mids in comparison. The GR8 mids seem to be closer to you than the bass and treble, therefore they are mid-forward. Of course, each track is going to adjust both absolute and relative positioning of each IEM. That is how it makes sense to me.
For example, while the MD sounds very nice, it
is mid forward, like there are speakers presenting the music to me up close and personal. Putting the SM3 in makes me feel like I am in the recording studio (for this track, Destiny's Child). The space created is so much better front to back and top to bottom, not to mention side to side, the presentation of the SM3 can start more forward than the MD and end further back than the MD, depending on parts of the song. The IE8 did sound like I was at the back of a jazz club, regardless of the music. I don’t think the SM3 will be able to present music like that, although I might have just not found the right track yet! Maybe I need to get my Butthole Surfers bootleg CD out and see how that sounds.
Oh, and the SM3 bass makes the MD bass sound flabby, yet not as powerful! The SM3 bass is as amazing to my ears as the space. Yes, the FX700 bass is close, but not as tight, refined, or quick, but with a little more emphasis.
In summary the SM3 sounds like it creates a presentation around the point of where the mics were positioned and other IEMs present in a more 2D plane (or line). I am not saying there is no front to back info with other IEMs, but relative to the SM3 the space seems compressed, therefore the instrument sounds are also compressed. I didn’t notice/think so until the SM3.
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Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif
By the way, how much of your listening is done with amps? Are most of your reviews based on amped or ampless?
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If you read my Copper review, I used a multitude of sources from DAPs to amped DACs/DAPs/Sound card
In general, I do my critical listening with the best source I can, or the combo I choose to use at the time. I believe in order to truly hear just how good an IEM like the SM3 is, you need components in the path that do not impose limits. What I mean by that is, if the music has the spatial information, hopefully your DAC can recreate that in analog. Then, if the DAC does a good job, I want the other components such as amps and capacitors in the chain to not constrict the spatial information or degrade the signal quality.
I have been listening my iPhone tonight and the SM3, as shigzeo said, actually sounds very good straight from the HPO. It also sounds surprisingly good from my Fuze HPO, but not especially good from my 5.5g HPO when compared to my other source/amp options, but hey, not bad.
And would you like it SQ? I really don't know, but I wouldn't come to a conclusion without hearing it, as it is not like your typical mid-forward presentation of say the MD or SE530. And people don't shout at you with the SM3 (unless you are listening to Rammstein), they smoothly sing to you! Don't buy it on my account! Maybe as others buy and comment, it may seem like something you may want.
Not sure how much that cleared things up, but hopefully other SM3 owners can chime in and offer their thoughts, similar or different. And if you check the SM3 Appreciation thread, shigzeo does talk about the presentation.
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Originally Posted by Tsengsta /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hey where would you put the original turbines?
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Not on my chart
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Originally Posted by 12345142 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Those are two polar opposites in earphones. You're better off comparing the Turbines to the Denon C751s. But although I haven't heard it, RE0 is probably much clearer with a treble, as opposed to bass, focus.
Excuse my bluntness, but I recommend you start a new thread instead of continuing to make off-topic posts in this one.
If you're asking questions about a purchasing decision, just get the Turbines if you like bass or the RE0s for treble emphasis.
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Great response, thank you!