[MrYman]

M³ vs. PPA vs. Flute vs. HA-1 vs. Saffire vs. 1616M -- anyone??

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 I'm curious to know how you came up with the idea that soundcards can drive headphones as well as dedicated amps? Have you actually tested them?

And I am curious to know if you've read this thread?

If you'd have you'd see that I didn't test ANY of these devices, BUT that I've read SEVERAL opinions of people who heard both dedicated headphone amps and such portable recording audio devices...

Ohh and how I came to this idea? Answer: I was thinking to buy a portable (could be semi-portable as well) headphone dedicated amp like Xin SuperMacro-3, or Porthaphile V2, but just an amp alone would not do, I’d need a device to export audio out of my notebook at work and desktop PC at home to the external amp. And I saw someone selling Edirol UA-25 + Corda HA-1 MkII (this person exchanged this system for M-Audio Transit + Benchmark DAC1), the person buying Benchmark DAC1 said that Edirol UA-25 sounds almost as good as Corda HA-1 MkII, and remember Edirol UA-25 is less than $250 while Corda HA-1 is almost $500, plus that Edirol UA-25 is much more than just a headphone amp (and I’d not underestimate this person hearing quality, otherwise why would he buy Benchmark DAC1 for about $900??!). Thus it occurred to me that if Edirol UA-25 can be so good, and being in the lower price range for portable recording audio device what would be with such higher priced devices, and products like Focusrite Saffire and E-MU 1616M (both costing as Corda HA-1) have at paper much better specs than Edirol UA-25. I even sent an email to Focusrite company and I put on this thread the reply from guy, excerpt of what he said: “The headphone output uses a special high current amp rather than an op-amp based design like most of the Saffire's competitors. The maximum output level is very high and so too is the quality of the converters on board the Saffire...” And these are NOT the only opinions of users knowing the sound from both headphone amp and recording device, there are more on these forums! Several of them, and all of the ones I’ve read said a recording device in price range up to $250 is better than, say, Xin SuperDual amps etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 I tested my u24 headout alone with 501 and while it drove it to audible levels easily and sounded pretty good. It does not come close to the clarity and sound quality of my m3. The difference was like between 96kbps vs 320kbps mp3. Just for reference, I also had a transit before and the headout of the u24 is much much better. I'm skeptical that these sound cards alone are much better than a cmoy.

If you notice, this “ESI Waveterminal U24” is around 17th place on my list... How I put it there? By opinion I’ve read, and by specs (U24 is only 24bits/48Hz and has poor SNR at 90dB). And again, as stated in my original/first post, these judgments are based on opinions, reviews and specs and do NOT represent ACTUAL sound quality of these devices. There is/was NO test, AFAIK, executed with all of these devices or at least with several of them...

Also, if you noticed I also put on the list “HeadRoom BitHead”, which IS a dedicated headphone amp but it also has USB connection!

You are the first one of many who said that you doubt quality of such devices, but yet again, it would be appreciated if you don’t make conclusion just on the two you’ve heard, U24 and Transit, because the others above U24 on the list are, or at least should be (by reviews and opinions) better than U24!

By the way, how much does MisterX M³ cost? (Please tell me cost of parts and hours put in to build it...) Did little research and saw that at www.rockhopperaudio.com it costs $400. But I’d still like to know cost of parts and time spent to build it...

To make it clear, I would LOVE to see comparison between MisterX M³ vs. PPA v2 vs. AOS Flute vs. Corda HA-1 MkII vs. Focusrite Saffire vs. E-MU 1616M vs. [other devices on my list]

 

[dallasstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrYman If you notice, this “ESI Waveterminal U24” is around 17th place on my list... How I put it there? By opinion I’ve read, and by specs (U24 is only 24bits/48Hz and has poor SNR at 90dB). And again, as stated in my original/first post, these judgments are based on opinions, reviews and specs and do NOT represent ACTUAL sound quality of these devices. There is/was NO test, AFAIK, executed with all of these devices or at least with several of them...

Its SNR is actually 110 dB. It says so very plainly on the ESI website.

 

[MrYman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallasstar Its SNR is actually 110 dB. It says so very plainly on the ESI website.

Yes, for DAC, but I used for all devices data given for ADC, here is what I put in first post (I got 90dB from some review site): Quote:

UPDATE #8: As spoted by dallasstar there are/were some errors in given specs, I've fixed the one for U24, fixed info will be in BLUE color. (Note: SNR data are for ADC, for DAC all have a bit higher numbers.)

P.S. if you are aware of other errors, please let me know so I fix it...

 

[spike33]

m3 cost less than $300, its equivalent to ppa.

So you heard a few ppl say this soundcard is 'almost' as good as an amp. I have yet to hear someone say a soundcard is 'better' than an amp

For $500, I think any soundcard/amp combo will easily best soundcard alone. It'd be awesome if you could get focusrite saffire and lets say, edirol+m3 or transit+aos flute and write a comparison.

 

[MrYman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 m3 cost less than $300, its equivalent to ppa.

You mean in parts or already build version? If build version, who sells that thing for only $300? I might order one

And if I buy kit version, how much would that cost, and how many hours one would need to build it? I mean, if that person is skilled with DIY... Well, not me, but my friend is... but it would be NICE to know how many hours it might take from him so I know before I ask him... to save my butt of course

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 So you heard a few ppl say this soundcard is 'almost' as good as an amp. I have yet to hear someone say a soundcard is 'better' than an amp

I don't want to be picky, but these devices are NOT soundcards, but portable external audio recording devices, and they belong into Pro Audio Gear category -- well, I am talking about few devices on top of my list, and those are the ones I am really interested into... Actually, in top two

Also, the guy who’s said that is on these forums, and I don’t want to mention his name cause I have no idea if he’d like that or not, if he sees this thread he can speak for himself if he wants to... He said Edirol UA-25 is almost as good as Corda HA-1 MkII, which to me tells that Edirol UA-25 is BETTER than amps like Xin SuperDual and alike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 For $500, I think any soundcard/amp combo will easily best soundcard alone. It'd be awesome if you could get focusrite saffire and lets say, edirol+m3 or transit+aos flute and write a comparison.

Haha, yeah, that would be really awesome, but how would I get all that stuff in my little country is beyond my imagination

(I am not American, I live in Slovenia - a place of just two-million population.) Also note that you have to give $100 away for USB device (for line-out) and $400 for amp. Being at this point, let me know which dedicated headphone amp would you recommend for up to $400: M3, Flute, HA-1, SR-71, XP-7, SM V3, Gilmore Lite – would I be kicked in my butt if I’d say Flute and M3 are the two of the bunch to be considered the most?

Ohh well, I wonder, what if it turns out that Saffire & 1616M are as good as those amps above? Wish someone could compare these things.... Dreaming. zzzZZzzzZz zzZzzZzZZz

 

[eriksson]

I've had the Edirol UA-25 and the Corda HA1-MKII. I'm the one MrYman is talking about..

I did this test several times because I didn't want to belive the result. But swapping headphone outs between the Corda and the Edirol doesnt really produce a big difference. Of course the corda produces louder music and you have to have the Edirol on max volume for it to produce good volume. But the sonic differences are very slim, there's a bit more fullness to the sound on the Corda but I couldnt really tell that much of a difference..

But since it's still the Edirol DAC driving the Corda and it's own headphone out I would belive that the Corda has the ability to sound a lot better than the Edirol with a better DAC.

 

[MrYman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriksson [size=xx-small]I've had the Edirol UA-25 and the Corda HA1-MKII. I'm the one MrYman is talking about.. I did this test several times because I didn't want to belive the result. But swapping headphone outs between the Corda and the Edirol doesnt really produce a big difference. Of course the corda produces louder music and you have to have the Edirol on max volume for it to produce good volume. But the sonic differences are very slim, there's a bit more fullness to the sound on the Corda but I couldnt really tell that much of a difference.. But since it's still the Edirol DAC driving the Corda and it's own headphone out I would belive that the Corda has the ability to sound a lot better than the Edirol with a better DAC.[/size]

hi erik, thanks for popping in, nice to see you here and hear your opinion! if i may ask you, how would you compare your current setep: »M-Audio Transit + Benchmark DAC1« to your previous one: »Edirol UA-25 + Corda HA1-MkII«?

 

[individual6891]

If it wasn't for the poll, this could have been stickied by now

 

[MrYman]

I don't care for the poll, thread content outgrew it, can someone remove the poll?

P.S. If poll cannot be removed, I can put the content of first post to a new thread, if someone wants to make it sticky? If so, pls PM me.

 

[eriksson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrYman hi erik, thanks for popping in, nice to see you here and hear your opinion! if i may ask you, how would you compare your current setep: »M-Audio Transit + Benchmark DAC1« to your previous one: »Edirol UA-25 + Corda HA1-MkII«?

I would describe it as a general step-up in every aspect pretty much. Though I haven't recived my XLR Zu cable yet, so I haven't used the full potential of the DAC1.

The sound sucks you in more, the stage is awsome and there are details that the Edirol didn't reveal. I didn't A-B between the two setups though I'm afraid, since I sent the Corda off the same day I got the DAC1.

Also compared to many here I thought the bass got a lot better with the DAC1..

The transit is a cute little device that get's the job done. I think the M-Audio control panel seems a lot more polished than the Edirol, which felt really Windows98.. Just a small detail

 

[MrYman]

Here is another good opinion about Edirol UA-25, from "doobooloo", who has a lot of amps and headphones and even makes amps! See: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...1&postcount=17 (Excerpt: "Currently I'm running things off my UA-25 unamped but it's sounding mighty fine.") Here is list of her headphones: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112196 ...and note in her profile she has these amps: "dblab PPA, dblab HP-100A, dblab CK PIMETA", and yet she uses just UA-25..... hmmmm, hmmm, hm, ha. Kewl for me hehe

Look, look, there is more, much more in the praise of such devices -- today post from "doobooloo" titled "USB powered headphone amp project?": http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=113478

 

[MrYman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriksson I would describe it as a general step-up in every aspect pretty much.

Thanks for feedback Erik! But hey, pls don't say such things as "pretty much", be kind and gentle to us not having that thing, say it's just a little of improvement

J/K mate.

 

[lan]

>>>>1616m is a very new product (not selling yet) and I doubt it has the same headphone output as 1820m

You never know unless you open it up. But I don't find most of these jacks to be that great. And even if there's a buffer like ub some amps like Pimeta in some devices like Benchmark DAC1, it doesn't mean the headphone out is that good. They are good to me but I want excellent not just good. But that's just me though.

>>>I might (and probably will) also use this device for recording audio.

You have to choose your priorities. If you're going to be doing recording, then you should get one of these devices. To me it won't be as good of a source and amp but it's a good combo.

>>>>Ian, one more thing... I notice you have Xin SuperDual & Headroom Coda, could you make a short comparison of these two amps against the Echo Indigo AND [size=small]E-MU 1820M[/size]

A comparision of quality of just the amp? It wouldn't be a true comparision since the amps will have interconnects and need sources, 1820m and Indigo are their own sources, and my 1820m is modified so won't represent a stock product. So it's hard to compare just the amp parts.

>>>I guess I'd not hear any difference between Benchmark DAC1 at $900 and AOS Flute at $400, how many people here that difference really?

If you say difference, there is distinction between the sonc presentation and characteristics of various amps besides their quality. I find it's not easy to hear differences of quality in most products because it's usually not better or worst in many aspects. Sometimes it's better in one way and worst in another. Oddly I find more similarities than differences between DAC1 and the AOS Flute. I prefer Flute. Others may like the DAC1 more.

 

[eriksson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrYman Here is another good opinion about Edirol UA-25, from "doobooloo", who has a lot of amps and headphones and even makes amps! See: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...1&postcount=17 (Excerpt: "Currently I'm running things off my UA-25 unamped but it's sounding mighty fine.") Here is list of her headphones: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112196 ...and note in her profile she has these amps: "dblab PPA, dblab HP-100A, dblab CK PIMETA", and yet she uses just UA-25..... hmmmm, hmmm, hm, ha. Kewl for me hehe Look, look, there is more, much more in the praise of such devices -- today post from "doobooloo" titled "USB powered headphone amp project?": http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=113478

My Edirol UA-25 is still available for purchase

 

[yfei]

I second 'Transit USB + Benchmark DAC1' combo.