[Vicious Tyrant]

I've been kicking around the idea of getting an ipod. I'm a little confused by all the talk of compressed files and FLAC and whatnot.

I currently listen to a portable CD player and some old Grado SR-60s. I was thinking I'd get an ipod, add an amp (Headroom microstack, maybe?), then add some upgraded headphones as my savings allows.

My question is this: with the SQ limitations imposed by an ipod - no optical line out, file compression (?) - at what point is one foolishly overspending on headphones? I listen mostly to opera and I thought the Senn 580s looked like a nice compromise between sound and price. But can an ipod provide enough sound quality to make the expense worthwhile? At what point on the headphone price points does ipod-as-a-source max out your value?

Any opinions would be much appreciated.

 

[pds6]

Vicious Tyrant says:
Quote:

I listen mostly to opera and I thought the Senn 580s looked like a nice compromise between sound and price. But can an ipod provide enough sound quality to make the expense worthwhile? At what point on the headphone price points does ipod-as-a-source max out your value?

You have correctly summed-up the issue that all the fighting are over. How much is enough.

All my headphone use is portable. I do not do any "critical listen" with my portable system. I use it in and out of my car, walks around the neighborhood and plane flights.

For full sized headphones, I have the HD 580's and the much smaller (closed) HD 25's. The HD 580's are large, open and for home use. The HD 580'S are of little use on a plane flight.

I think you have a good handle on the trade-offs, but why are you going portable. For me, going portable allows me to walk around and listen to my music. When I am out and about, I will use a pair of in-ear Ety's or Shure's.

I would think that you would want to hear opera through speakers and not headphones. If you must use headphones and are only going to use it for in-home listening, I would consider a tube amp with a cd or phono as source.

 

[jdimitri]

The 5G ipod (with a good line-out cable, eg cyro or cotton from Audiolineout.com) doesn't sound that bad compared to full sized cd players
In the house i can use a Njoe Tjoeb 4000, a highly regarded modified marantz cd player and i use my ipod 90% of the time..
The marantz has a tad more details but i like walking around and sitting on the grass or wherever my mood takes me while listening to music

 

[blessingx]

The iPod has limitations, there's no doubt, but I think a pairing with the HD580 is less problematic with it than that a laid back source and laid back phone may not mate well (also if you use a smooth amp like the SR71). I've found more exciting phones match a little better with the iPod. Lower Grados and SA5Ks that I can't normally spend much time with works well with the iPod. Even my GS1000s sounds quite good off it (and SR71).

 

[Vicious Tyrant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pds6 I would think that you would want to hear opera through speakers and not headphones. If you must use headphones and are only going to use it for in-home listening, I would consider a tube amp with a cd or phono as source.

Heh. That's good advice. My wife and kids don't really like my music, so I mostly listen on the headphones after the kids go to bed. It's kind of a sanctuary. Maybe someday we'll upgrade our house and I'll have my own music listening room!

But while we're talking about it....any recommendations for tube amp and speakers in the same price range??????

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx I think a pairing with the HD580 is less problematic with it than that a laid back source and laid back phone may not mate well (also if you use a smooth amp like the SR71). I've found more exciting phones match a little better with the iPod. Lower Grados and SA5Ks that I can't normally spend much time with works well with the iPod. Even my GS1000s sounds quite good off it (and SR71).

Hmmmm... I hadn't thought of that.

I already use the Grado SR-60s, but I had always thought they were mismatched to my music, since I usually think of Grados as "rockin" cans. Good thoughts, thanks all.

btw, what about the AKG 701s? I heard them at a Cincy meet a while back and I really liked them.

 

[pds6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicious Tyrant any recommendations for tube amp . . . AKG 701s?

Go to the amp section. I know next to nothing about newer models of tube amps, but I have read that China and other Asian imports are very good at a reasonable price. The AKG 710's have a great rep.

I can see you around midnight. Mamma and the kids are in bed. Vicious Tyrant is listening to Carmen on his 710's and a smile can be seen from the glow of the tube amp.

 

[K2Grey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicious Tyrant My question is this: with the SQ limitations imposed by an ipod - no optical line out, file compression (?) - at what point is one foolishly overspending on headphones? I listen mostly to opera and I thought the Senn 580s looked like a nice compromise between sound and price. But can an ipod provide enough sound quality to make the expense worthwhile? At what point on the headphone price points does ipod-as-a-source max out your value?

No optical line out means you have to rely on the DAC and possibly the amp in the iPod. It may be the case that the amp is in the DAC and thus is not bypassed by the line-out (since, the last I knew, while information is not available on the specific DAC on the iPod, similar ones had the "line out" of the DAC going through the internal amplifier).

The important part with file formats is not really compression. All music files are compressed except for WAV, although in the case of FLAC etc. they can be decompressed back to the original state perfectly. Lossy codecs use psychoacoustic principles to get rid of parts of the music which are believed to be outside the bounds of human hearing. This is an inperfect science, but in general I think it would be quite difficult for you to discern the differences if psychological factors are laid aside (i.e. foobar ABXer).

I would think that differences between headphones would remain consistent on the iPod. Certainly there are enough threads where people argue about which IEM is the best, and very few (or none) where someone says "You know, they all sound the same to me on the iPod..."

 

[Vicious Tyrant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pds6 I can see you around midnight. Mamma and the kids are in bed. Vicious Tyrant is listening to Carmen on his 710's and a smile can be seen from the glow of the tube amp.

Beautiful, baby!

Wow, I thought the audio stuff was all confusing enough as it was..... This portable audio board really adds to the confusion! Well, i guess that's part of the fun!

 

[Konig]

get the cowon iaudio, u wont regret it =)

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicious Tyrant Hmmmm... I hadn't thought of that. I already use the Grado SR-60s, but I had always thought they were mismatched to my music, since I usually think of Grados as "rockin" cans. Good thoughts, thanks all. btw, what about the AKG 701s? I heard them at a Cincy meet a while back and I really liked them.

For the record I'm not a big fan of the Grados or the Sony mentioned. Much more of a Senn fan myself though the unGrado GS1000 is likely moving me over as an everything phone (funny I think Grado fans hate them because they're too Senn/AKG-like and not Grado enough and non-fans may be reluctant to try them). Anyway, like always it's synergy and since the iPod is a refined/tame sound, picking a phone that may be a tad too upfront/dynamic otherwise may help. Have you considered the HD595?

On the other end you could get a portable amp that may perk up the sound for the HD580 (which really is a great bang for buck phone). The old Hornet may help there. Possibly the new Hornet 'M' too, though I'm not sure how close to the SR71 it is. The Xin amps can often be opamped matched. Anyway I won't worry about the HD595 or HD580 being overkill, just match equipment accordingly.

And for compression formats, this is but one guys perspective (others would disagree) but it's worth reading.

 

[pds6]

Vicious Tyrant say:
Quote:

This portable audio board really adds to the confusion!

There is one way to stop some of the confusion. Portable, stay here. In-home use, go to the other forums.

As I told you, I still have not heard a good reason for you going portable. Everything you have posted seems to point to in-home use.

Goodbye (buy) and Good Luck !

ps: I can understand your reluctance to leave. We are a charming group of bastards!

 

[Vicious Tyrant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pds6 Vicious Tyrant say: There is one way to stop some of the confusion. Portable, stay here. In-home use, go to the other forums. As I told you, I still have not heard a good reason for you going portable. Everything you have posted seems to point to in-home use. Goodbye (buy) and Good Luck ! ps: I can understand your reluctance to leave. We are a charming group of bastards!

Those are good points - charming bastards and portable discussion. A potent cocktail!

Regarding my reasons for staying portable, I guess I haven't thought things through in detail. I stumbled onto head-fi about three years ago when I was listening to everything through my Sony discman and the headphones that came with it. Since then, I got up the nerve to buy some Grado sr-60s but haven't made any other changes since. Mostly all the info is so overwhelming I've felt a little paralyzed.

Should I expect the sound quality in a stay-in-one-spot to be significantly increased from a portable source?

I guess I want to stick with something portable because I like to take my music to work and to classes, then I find a comfortable spot at night to listen. I'm not really all that commited to portable, it's just what I've always been doing. I was hoping to find something that would allow me to drag it along, but dramatically increase the sound quality.

Maybe I could buy something more tied to a single spot and really enjoy it...I just don't know! My budget is tight and I hate the idea of buying something and having it not be just exactly right.

I definitely appreciate the input here, and thanks to blessingx for the 595 suggestion - I'll look into it.

 

[pds6]

Vicious Tyrant says,
Quote:

Should I expect the sound quality in a stay-in-one-spot to be significantly increased from a portable source?

Yes, particularly if your a true "Opera Nut". A tube amp will make the voice sound warmer - more human. Have you noticed that in some cd's the voice can sound harsh.

Quote:

I guess I want to stick with something portable because I like to take my music to work and to classes, then I find a comfortable spot at night to listen.

Now your starting to go down the road to Hell. Music to work and to class is not what I would call "critical listening". For portable use, the 580's are no good (too big and open). Other headphones may also be too big for outdoor use. I full sized pair of headphones cover your ear and then some. There huge!

Quote:

I'm not really all that commited to portable, it's just what I've always been doing. I was hoping to find something that would allow me to drag it along, but dramatically increase the sound quality.

No matter what, you still have your old stuff to drag along.

Quote:

thanks to blessingx for the 595 suggestion - I'll look into it

Great set of cans, but they are large and open. Not good for portable use.

Good Luck!

 

[Vicious Tyrant]

Well, I'll say this - you're not making my choices any easier.

Plenty to think about, though...thanks!

"Road to hell...." heh heh!

 

[guzziguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdimitri The 5G ipod (with a good line-out cable, eg cyro or cotton from Audiolineout.com) doesn't sound that bad compared to full sized cd players In the house i can use a Njoe Tjoeb 4000, a highly regarded modified marantz cd player and i use my ipod 90% of the time.. The marantz has a tad more details but i like walking around and sitting on the grass or wherever my mood takes me while listening to music

I agree. As I type, I'm listening to my 5G ipod attached to a PPX3 Slam by a one off mini to rca cable by saab. The headphones are K340s and it sounds pretty darn good, at least as good as my cheap Toshiba DVD going through a DAC-AH.

The important thing is to use the lineout feature of the ipod.