[tvrboy]

Somebody just posted a thread asking can I power the HD-800 with a soundcard. That reminds me, since I have been on Head-Fi I'm constantly amazed at the number of people who buy expensive headphones then use a soundcard or really really cheap amp to power them. There are LOTS of members here who say "I power the HD650/K701 with my soundcard and it sounds great." Sure it sounds great to you, cause you never heard anything better. Please don't take this the wrong way, it is NOT an insult to anyone. But it's giving lots of newbies the false impression that they can just buy a great can with no need for amp and source. I also see a lot of threads that go something like "I bought a HD650/DT880/RS-1 and I am dissapointed with it!" Well 99% of the time those posters are using a crap amp and crap source, and they don't know any better.

I think we as members need to do a better job of disseminating this important information to newbies. Maybe a sticky thread on which cans NEED amps. There is a big difference here between producing sound and producing good sound. If you power your 300 ohm cans with an ipod, they will make a sound, but it will sound like garbage.

 

[1Time]

Hey! Just let the newbies learn on their own. It's good for the used headphone market.

 

[Happy Camper]

I agree with this. Problem is that they will go to the cheapest amp and still be disappointed. Getting into hi fi means investing in gear. Otherwise, we'd all go to Best Buy, pick the package off the shelf and be done.

 

[boomana]

I agree 100%, and started this thread two years ago to say the same thing:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dis...-trend-264859/

It's also a main reason why I started the Hopefully Helpful Guide for Newbies, now stickied in this forum. It's nice to see the topic come up again as I think it's an important one.

I think one difficulty is that folks come here with very different ideas of what this place is about, and also come here with vastly different levels of experience with audio gear in general, especially high-end headphone gear. I love that there is room here for all, but sometimes the more experienced voices get drowned out or shouted down by a chorus of less experienced, enthusiastic members. Things tend to even out over time, but I strongly suggest newer members do some serious research before purchasing an item rather than just believing the first words they read and like. It's all fine and well if someone is enjoying their K701 out of a soundcard, but to not know that they're seriously crippling the sound quality by doing so is a shame.

 

[aimlink]

Indeed. I always wince at the testimonies about buying or intending to buy an expensive can and then not being prepared to invest in decent amp'ing and a decent source. To each his own, I guess.

 

[revolink24]

If a person starts out buying and AKG K701/2 to power from their iPod, it is entirely their fault in one of two ways. They either did not research or come to Head-Fi, or they ignored both the community and their research. It is therefore their fault.

Lets say, however, that someone is looking to upgrade their computer audio setup bit-by-bit. They might purchase some Grados in the mid to high end range and be perfectly happy. Grados sound decent unamped and while the source would probably not be spectacular the difference would still be immediately noticable, and it is likely that they would be happy with their setup for the time until they can upgrade, at which time they might come to head-fi and ask about an amp. And it is at that time that we can argue source vs. amp till the cows come home.

My mentalities for different types of headphones are as follows.

Low impedence/high sensitivity full-sized

Headphones and/or source before Amp

High impedance/low sensitivity full-sized

Amp before headphones and/or source

IEMS

People use these mainly portably, so the headphone-first route applies here as well. Portable amps can be secondary, even optional or unneccesary for the most part (except for certain high impedance ones (Ety, Yuin, I'm looking at you))


As such, I am inclined to believe that it is not always bad to be of a headphone-first mentality. The difference will be there, and to newbies, thats really all that matters until they can upgrade.

 

[swmtnbiker]

IMO making mistakes and bad decisions are part of the journey. A very important part. Discovering the intricacies of this hobby ON ONE'S OWN is one of the things that makes it fun and interesting. Going from 0 MPH to the speed of sound without being exposed to everything that lies in between and learning from those experiences is a worthless quest as far as I'm concerned. Too many people want instant gratification these days.

Buying an expensive headphone and being disappointed with the sound when it's jacked into a soundcard is a part of that process. When someone goes this route, they come here and ask questions. They are then enlightened. I don't see that as a "failure" on the part of the Head-Fi community, I see it as this place working as it should be.

 

[dannie01]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Time /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey! Just let the newbies learn on their own. It's good for the used headphone market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with this. Problem is that they will go to the cheapest amp and still be disappointed. Getting into hi fi means investing in gear. Otherwise, we'd all go to Best Buy, pick the package off the shelf and be done.

Hah, you two are interesting. But I agree with you two.

 

[tvrboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif but sometimes the more experienced voices get drowned out or shouted down by a chorus of less experienced, enthusiastic members.

This. Took me a long time to figure out that not everyone here is an expert. Now I only listen to members who have a lot of experience with many high-end headphones and amps, like zanth, boomana, uncle erik, etc. I cringe every time I see a head-fier saying things I know are demonstrably false. And in turn, I try to limit myself to only discussing gear I have actually owned. Now, I'm not saying that people who have never owned a R10 should never talk about it, that would be just silly. But they should say the truth, that they have never heard it, or only heard it for 10 minutes at a meet, or whatever. Maybe this comes across as a little snobbish, but this is the advice I wish somebody had given me when I started here.

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Somebody just posted a thread asking can I power the HD-800 with a soundcard.

Some soundcards are very high-end... I don't see the problem.

Quote:

If you power your 300 ohm cans with an ipod, they will make a sound, but it will sound like garbage.

That's bs to be honest. Have you ever tried and A/B'd that or done measurements?

 

[boomana]

Everyone definitely needs to learn the intricacies, as you said, of this hobby on their own, which really is a fun part of the hobby, but it's quite another to have misinformation spread around a forum dedicated to discussing audio equipment seriously.

 

[3602]

Back on another forum, there was such a post that a guy bought an HD650 "out of curiousity" and asking "I plug it into my Zen and only getting tiny sound".
Just so you may know... sound cards aren't the worst.

 

[krmathis]

I fully agree!
I think the "problem" is that there are different level on new Head-Fi members. Some are very experienced, perhaps coming from a high end speaker system and knowing what it takes. While others start from scratch with their first computer, DAP, ... based rig.

'boomana' have put together a really nice sticky thread, covering most (all?) of it. If new members read her thread before taking further steps they might take up a tip or six.
Before you buy headphones: A hopefully helpful guide for newbies

All the information is out there. It is just a matter of doing some research (searching and reading).

 

[tvrboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's bs to be honest. Have you ever tried and A/B'd that or done measurements?

Are you kidding me?

No, I have not done measurements. Perhaps one of the more technically inclined folk here can give you the exact reasons why an ipod's amp will not sound as good as a Zana Deux or Phonitor. Amps don't just make things louder, they also improve the sound.

Yes, I have run a 600 ohm K240 and 300 ohm HD650 from an ipod, from a total bithead, and from my computer soundcard. They don't sound good!

 

[MrGreen]

I think a lot of the misconception stems from the quest of seeking an amp "good enough" for or "to power" a particular set of headphones, rather than the right amp (which is either a matter of synergy or an amp that limits your headphones as little as possible within your budget).

My case for example is that I am using a pair of canalphones as my main headphones at the moment and I had an amp (which I bought for a set of headphones) powering them which was more than "adequate". It sounded alright too, that is until I got my new amp which is much better for them (although arguably far from perfect) and the sound overall is not only much more clean but also more dynamic and musical.

If the focus was to shift away from "enabling" headphones to "not holding them back" I think a lot of the misconception (such as the misconception that if you plug a headphone into a soundcard it isnt being amplified, or associating amplifer with the colloquial 'amplify' = make louder, therefore loud = good) would be gone, but of course there would still be HD800s being run from ipods.