[K93George]

Ok, I worked the duration of my contract at a retail firm in Australia and I ended up in Home Entertainment thanks to my knowledge.  A few interesting and dirty tricks I discovered!

Lets start with cables:

We work not only off a sales target, the sales target is easy to get by selling highly-priced items such as a home theatre or TV.  We also need to hit that target with a percantage, that percantage being profit.  Example; I make $30,000 and smash the target BUT if that is at 5% profit, I have done poorly.  That is why they hesitate to drop the price, they want to make a profit to keep the % up!  Generally a TV is only a few % profit, sometimes negative and that can hurt you.  So in come the cables. 

They don't care that the $200 HDMI cable is not worth the price, it has an enormous % and that will outweigh the negative % of the TV.  They are going to convince you otherwise and shoot garbage "facts" down your throat (not that the store I worked at did that, just keep reading).  Since I didn't even get bonuses and didn't have bills, a family and such I never participated in this game of survival.  I still managed to smash 10k (best for the day) on my first day

So to the point, a customer comes in annoyed at the crap he was told from another store.  "I just bought a new TV and he told me I need to buy this $200 cable!  I can't afford that and he is telling me if I don't get it, I can't get the most out of my TV"  This was a middle-aged man, who clearly didn't know what to look out for.  Truly disgusting tactics.

I told him, and I am not joking; "We can also sell you a $200 HDMI cable if you like, the good thing about them is you can also wear them around your neck as jewellery".  He caught on of course, "So they are just for looks?"  "Well they aren't JUST looks but they may as well be, don't waste your money, we have $30 (cheapest we sold) HDMI cables that will do the same thing.  He came back for future purchases, because I didn't go for short term money!

To the point, I can't stress this enough.  Don't EVER believe the sales hype around cables, especially digital cables.  Their are exceptions.  We sold 2 types of optical cables, 1 @ $20 and another @ $50.  When someone went to buy the cheaper cable (understandably) I would tell them that they better be ready to do a return because those cables are complete CRAP!  They would literally just stop working, we had 5 of them fail in store for no apparent reason, and the 2 I purchased failed at home also.

I recommended 3 options to customers, either they (1) risk it and deal with returns, (2) spend the extra money for a better cable (literally), (3) go to another store and buy a different cable.

Maybe I was a bad at sales, no not really.  I still smashed it each time and I was also honest.  If I wouldn't get it for myself I definitely wouldn't be pushing it on unexpected hard working customers.

I might do some more threads, such as what they do in the home theatre rooms where you audition speakers.  That will truly shock you all. 

So, to the point my friends!  It is all about the survival instinct, you or them.  This goes for the online overpriced cables as well, they want money from you, that is all.  Btw, the only reason I still don't work at my previous job is because of school.  Otherwise I would continue my crusade of spreading the truth  

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

If I wouldn't get it for myself I definitely wouldn't be pushing it on unexpected hard working customers.

 

 
BRAVO!
 
se

 

[Willakan]

$50 for an optical cable? I paid $5 for mine!
Seriously though, it's nice to see that you sold stuff with integrity.

 

[scootermafia]

High end HDMI is where I draw the line on what I'm willing to actually buy for myself.  I have, however, gotten upgraded contact lenses, which is just about as good as a top flite HDMI cable.  

 

[K93George]

Even the cheapest cables IMO were overpriced, and the markup..? We are talking multiple times the original amount with the high-end cables. I remember purchasing a few hundred $ worth of HDMI cables for close to $70, 3 "elite" HDMI cables lol. If your wondering on the markup on headphones. It depends, a popular Sennheiser pair that retailed for 200 cost under 100 for the store. A pair of high-end speakers that retailed for 3,000? I remember having my jaw drop when I heard these animals, they were huge, well built and sounded just amazing. I was thinking of getting them, but 3k? "They are amazing but they cost a bit!" I said to the manager. "Dont worry, think they are around 1,000 on staff". Online they sell for close to retail as well. The weirdest thing is that audio has the highest markup of all. TVs and computers have almost nothing, but audio? Anything audio related is insanely marked. Wish I still worked there to spill the beans, be like an insider LOL. Fortunately online shopping is there to help, sort of I have always wondered though, with computers vs. Speakers, is it that with a computer the manufacture makes all the money and with speakers they share some of that wealth with the retailer? A bit like the iPhone 4 vs. Any other phone essentially. No markup what so ever in the iPhone 4 or any Apple product but for a better spec'd Android phone... It can be $100-200 profit.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Even the cheapest cables IMO were overpriced, and the markup..? We are talking multiple times the original amount with the high-end cables. I remember purchasing a few hundred $ worth of HDMI cables for close to $70, 3 "elite" HDMI cables lol. If your wondering on the markup on headphones. It depends, a popular Sennheiser pair that retailed for 200 cost under 100 for the store. A pair of high-end speakers that retailed for 3,000? I remember having my jaw drop when I heard these animals, they were huge, well built and sounded just amazing. I was thinking of getting them, but 3k? "They are amazing but they cost a bit!" I said to the manager. "Dont worry, think they are around 1,000 on staff". Online they sell for close to retail as well. The weirdest thing is that audio has the highest markup of all. TVs and computers have almost nothing, but audio? Anything audio related is insanely marked. Wish I still worked there to spill the beans, be like an insider LOL. Fortunately online shopping is there to help, sort of I have always wondered though, with computers vs. Speakers, is it that with a computer the manufacture makes all the money and with speakers they share some of that wealth with the retailer? A bit like the iPhone 4 vs. Any other phone essentially. No markup what so ever in the iPhone 4 or any Apple product but for a better spec'd Android phone... It can be $100-200 profit.

There is no money in selling computers because they are a commodity. Most are made in China by a few OEMs, and there's enormous pressure to undercut the next guy. If Acer can pack in a bit more ram or a faster processor than Dell can for the money they'll do that, and then hope to make up for their lost profit with more volume. Apple doesn't work that way. They sell on their brand, not by having a few more GB than the next guy. That's how they get away with the "Apple Tax". They can charge $1800 for the same level of hardware that Dell charges $1,000 for, and if you want an Apple, you'll pay it.
 
A profit margin of 5-1 or more is certainly not uncommon in high-end. It comes with the territory. High-end companies want a 2 or 3 to 1 return from their dealers, who in turn want another 2 or 3 to 1 return from you. They don't sell that much, so they need the margins. If you don't want to support that system, that's where companies like Odyssey, Salk, and Tyler come in.
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

I am sure the cable believers will come in here and insist that specialty cables from small manufacturers are "better" than what is found at consumer retail.

Of course they are.

Because a small manufacturer has no interest in a profit and each is a paragon of virtue. No matter that they are selling $20 of materials for $500, they are standing up to the Evil Scientific Conspiracy that is bent on destroying the "fun" of audio. These horrific conspirators also insist that ears are a poor measurement tool even though they are a poor measurement tool and have the nerve to suggest that humans are subject to their own psychology instead of being machine-like. Ridiculous!

So you must buy very, very, very expensive cables.

Never mind the garden hoses, wires stuck in the freezer next to the fish sticks, and manufacturers who can't tell which way to wire their power cords.

None of that matters. It's more important to spend a lot of money on cables to "stick it to" the people who think that a $3 cable would make you just as happy. Those folks are jus trying to ruin things and spoil fun. The people you should really trust are those selling Home Depot wire in Techflex at a 7,000% markup. And you should trust those people because they tell you that you should trust them. It makes complete sense.

 

[Willakan]

 
Quote:

I am sure the cable believers will come in here and insist that specialty cables from small manufacturers are "better" than what is found at consumer retail.

Of course they are.

Because a small manufacturer has no interest in a profit and each is a paragon of virtue. No matter that they are selling $20 of materials for $500, they are standing up to the Evil Scientific Conspiracy that is bent on destroying the "fun" of audio. These horrific conspirators also insist that ears are a poor measurement tool even though they are a poor measurement tool and have the nerve to suggest that humans are subject to their own psychology instead of being machine-like. Ridiculous!

So you must buy very, very, very expensive cables.

Never mind the garden hoses, wires stuck in the freezer next to the fish sticks, and manufacturers who can't tell which way to wire their power cords.

None of that matters. It's more important to spend a lot of money on cables to "stick it to" the people who think that a $3 cable would make you just as happy. Those folks are jus trying to ruin things and spoil fun. The people you should really trust are those selling Home Depot wire in Techflex at a 7,000% markup. And you should trust those people because they tell you that you should trust them. It makes complete sense.

It's stramge. In most markets the consumer is seen as of paramount importance. Here, the benefit of the doubt is invariably given to the companies, all the while whilst the "consumers" declaim the atrociousness of criticising them...
 
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Never mind the garden hoses, wires stuck in the freezer next to the fish sticks, and manufacturers who can't tell which way to wire their power cords.

None of that matters. It's more important to spend a lot of money on cables to "stick it to" the people who think that a $3 cable would make you just as happy. Those folks are jus trying to ruin things and spoil fun. The people you should really trust are those selling Home Depot wire in Techflex at a 7,000% markup. And you should trust those people because they tell you that you should trust them. It makes complete sense.

Make your own then. Even the highest quality solid core copper in teflon hook-up wire is not expensive at all, maybe $2/ft. If you use connectors with set screws, you don't even need a soldering iron. You can make power cords out of shielded Belden 3/14 and some Marincos or Hubbells in maybe 20 minutes.
 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Last night The Gadget Show, a prime time UK entertainment programme which does (often daft) reviews went serious for a moment and warned people that they thought expensive HDMI cables being pushed on customers of TVs are a rip off.

 

[buffalowings]

Quote:

Last night The Gadget Show, a prime time UK entertainment programme which does (often daft) reviews went serious for a moment and warned people that they thought expensive HDMI cables being pushed on customers of TVs are a rip off.

I got my first HDMI cable for $9.00 from newegg...it was dead on arrival so..i went on amazon, found cables for $1.00 each (6ft) and bought 4, just in case the first three are broken too

 

[Elysian]

Great post OP.
 
Just to add something, I've heard there there's a small, audible difference on USB cables due to how USB carries both data and power.  The higher-end USB cables physically separate the data and power wires from each other.  A lot of people who feed their D/A with USB swear by this, but I haven't tested myself so I can't say one way or another.
 
I think this is a diagram of how it's designed:
 

 
 
I'm pretty sure HDMI doesn't carry power, so anything beyond industry specs is throwing money into a well.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Great post OP.
 
I'm pretty sure HDMI doesn't carry power, so anything beyond industry specs is throwing money into a well.

HDMI carries a hell of a lot of information, but not power. When used as a digital video cable, the signal should either work or not work. Our eyes are actually not that sensitive, but test equipment is and should be able to pick up video output quality differences when the same TV or projector is connected with a $10 HDMI cable and a $200 cable. As far as I know, there has been no measured report showing any differences. When you get to the absolute maximum of length that the HDMI spec allows, a higher quality cable may allow for the signal to keep working while a cheap one may not. At a typical length of a few meters though, there should be no difference.

 

[JRG1990]

Quote:

Great post OP.
 
Just to add something, I've heard there there's a small, audible difference on USB cables due to how USB carries both data and power.  The higher-end USB cables physically separate the data and power wires from each other.  A lot of people who feed their D/A with USB swear by this, but I haven't tested myself so I can't say one way or another.
 
I think this is a diagram of how it's designed:
 

 
 
I'm pretty sure HDMI doesn't carry power, so anything beyond industry specs is throwing money into a well.

Maybe so but most dacs are mains powered so a cable like that would make no difference.
 

 

[JRG1990]

Snake oil cables are easy to spot, they always really expensive , have a fancy eye candy design , use phases such as "better soundstage" "tighter bass" in the marketing and some are designed to elimate problems that don't really exist in the first place like skin effect.