[hodgjy]

Burn in isn't the same as thermal stability.  Burn in is also a hotly debated topic, but it's more concrete for me to wrap my head around.
 
I'm not discrediting people (and the idea itself) about long times required to reach thermal stability.  But, my brain is having a hard time comprehending the physics and thermodynamics of a 20 pound device needing 4-7 days to thermally stabilize.  We're not talking about a 100,000 sq foot warehouse here.  Once a temperature is reached, it's reached.  If there's no catalyzing of materials or chemical reactions, I don't understand what transformations are taking place inside a solid state device after a few hours of warming.  An electron is an electron and the temperature of its medium will have an impact, but its behavior should be repeatable at each temperature.

 

[gevorg]

sometime in 2018: Introducing Yggdrasil 2, warms up to perfection in just 24 hours!

 

[mikek200]

  Burn in isn't the same as thermal stability.  Burn in is also a hotly debated topic, but it's more concrete for me to wrap my head around.
 
I'm not discrediting people (and the idea itself) about long times required to reach thermal stability.  But, my brain is having a hard time comprehending the physics and thermodynamics of a 20 pound device needing 4-7 days to thermally stabilize.  We're not talking about a 100,000 sq foot warehouse here.  Once a temperature is reached, it's reached.  If there's no catalyzing of materials or chemical reactions, I don't understand what transformations are taking place inside a solid state device after a few hours of warming.  An electron is an electron and the temperature of its medium will have an impact, but its behavior should be repeatable at each temperature.

I totally agree with you,Hodgiy,unless someone come up with a solution,I'm just leaving mine on ,,24/7
Excuse ,the detour.

 

[wahsmoh]

My Theta plugs into a wall and it doesn't have an on/off switch. I just leave it plugged in and that way it is always warmed up and I can't fault it in any way.

 

[mikek200]

  My Theta plugs into a wall and it doesn't have an on/off switch. I just leave it plugged in and that way it is always warmed up and I can't fault it in any way.

And that's on a dac,that's .....25 years old..??
Nice.

 

[hodgjy]

  And that's on a dac,that's .....25 years old..??
Nice.

Some of the biggest changes to the audio world have been improved op amps.  That technology has taken over because they are a cheap way to achieve good measurements on audio analyzers. Older technology used fets and discrete output stages.
 
Since many people find that fets sound better than op amps, new technology, like the Schiit family, is adopting them again. Also, older gear is having a renaissance. 

 

[purrin]

It doesn't take 4-7 days to warm up, but our ears aged 4-7 days so the treble got that much smoother.

Could be. Sometimes it's a matter of accustomization. The problem with that is that I own multiple DACs / have another reference to compare to.

FWIW, the GAIN AD converter used by MFSL had an oven.

Would be interesting to keep music playing. The one week warm up time was simply leaving it on.

 

[mikek200]

  Some of the biggest changes to the audio world have been improved op amps.  That technology has taken over because they are a cheap way to achieve good measurements on audio analyzers. Older technology used fets and discrete output stages.
 
Since many people find that fets sound better than op amps, new technology, like the Schiit family, is adopting them again. Also, older gear is having a renaissance. 

Yes,I was looking to pick up the Theta,but it was to close to the Yiggy in price,plus,....Purrin talked me out of it.
I've heard wonderful thinks,about the Theta,just wasn't sure ,how long it might last me,and I imagine ,parts are probably scarce,if it should need servicing

 

[purrin]

sometime in 2018: Introducing Yggdrasil 2, warms up to perfection in just 24 hours!

In 2018, the same Yggy might not need that warmup. My 20 year old Gen V can now be transported and switched on without issue even though the manual says leave it on for four days. I also noted over time that my Mjolnir required less warm up time.

The gear that required the least warm up... Tube amps. 15 minutes and we are good.

 

[djcarpentier]

@ kugino (and anyone else)
 
Alrighty, my Monarchy M22a DAC is actually pretty awesome. This has the R2R PCM63P-K chip. I've had it for about a week so far. Don't have too much to compare it to right now, but i will say it is a very good sounding DAC. I noticed right away the bass was excellent. Running it balanced out to studio monitors via spdif. Black background, excellent dynamics. Zero smearing or congestion for full passages of music. For the price these can be had at they are fantastic. Highly recommended. 

 

[estreeter]

Thanks for the heads up, once I get the Yggdrasil, I shall rarely, turn it off. I was hoping this issue would had been fixed, before finale production.

 
I dont know that there is anything to 'fix' - if you read Mike's thoughts on digital sources a few weeks back, he doesnt turn any of his gear off. Some claim that the digital clocks take at least 48 hours to stabilise - I have no idea how said stabilisation works, but if its true than that's something else to consider. Audiophiles are a funny bunch - something that would have almost any other hobbyist crying foul can be accepted in this hobby if the groupthink is sufficiently powerful. The 300-hour burn in seems to be some sort of standard now, but I've seen figures as high as 1000 hours and these were supposedly 'night and day' differences according to the reviewer in question. 
 
If the accepted wisdom turns out to be that you need to turn Yggy on and leave it on until the zombie apocalypse takes out the grid, then that's what I believe most owners will do. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
I dont know that there is anything to 'fix' - if you read Mike's thoughts on digital sources a few weeks back, he doesnt turn any of his gear off. Some claim that the digital clocks take at least 48 hours to stabilise - I have no idea how said stabilisation works, but if its true than that's something else to consider. Audiophiles are a funny bunch - something that would have almost any other hobbyist crying foul can be accepted in this hobby if the groupthink is sufficiently powerful. The 300-hour burn in seems to be some sort of standard now, but I've seen figures as high as 1000 hours and these were supposedly 'night and day' differences according to the reviewer in question. 
 
If the accepted wisdom turns out to be that you need to turn Yggy on and leave it on until the zombie apocalypse takes out the grid, then that's what I believe most owners will do. 

Nah, I turn my gear on an hour beforehand if I can remember.

 

[arnaud]

My D1 sounded pretty awful out of the box, best I can describe it is smeared, muffled and wet. I was a but concerned actually as i might have been fooling myself when I had a unit for a short while a year before.
Now, it did take barely 4 hours to get everything setted. I haven't actually turned it off since but sound hasn't changed to my ears.

Well, I did get spoiled and used to the sound so, I have switched back to my previous DAC once last week to make sure what I felt was a little more than than placebo due to price tag .

Turns out I did not leave the old dac on for 5 minutes, it was that obvious. Not that the old dac sucks (at least not to me ears and with my comparisons to similar priced gear in the past) but the D1 is just a while another level of realism & resolution. I absolutely agree the treble does not feel lacking in the least, the cymbal splash actually sounds much more realistic on the ladder dac. The other obvious difference is texture / body, everything gains weight and again realism. Last one is layering, I guess resolution helps to better hear room cues.

Anyhow, I suppose the iggy delivers on all these fronts so you guys going to canjam are in for a treat (and a long wait line eh! ).

Arnaud

 

[prot]

major, night&day improvements after thousands of hours of burn-in ... and hundreds of hours of warm-up ... equipment dissapears ... feet are tapping ... no listener fatigue ...

imho that is how components move from the "sounds good" category into the "sounds too good to be true" category ... and for some reason I do prefer the plain old cow steak to the new and fancy unicorn steak.

 

[jexby]

prot,
 
have not laid ears nor headphones on the Yggy (or Ragn) have ye?