[hans030390]

 
WOW first thing came to mind was spacious soundstage, the Bifrost Uber isn't quite there. Also, I am going to say right now this is like the Bifrost Uber without the slight infection of "digititis" in the highs and has way more cajones in the bass region. <--Definitely NOT neutral but way more enjoyable.

 
Are you saying the extra balls in the bass is less neutral than what you'd get from the Bifrost? How are you sure that's just not closer to how it should sound? Usually the best DACs will have excellent slam and power in the bass while still being clean, textured, and having good pitch differentiation.

 

[wahsmoh]

   
Are you saying the extra balls in the bass is less neutral than what you'd get from the Bifrost? How are you sure that's just not closer to how it should sound? Usually the best DACs will have excellent slam and power in the bass while still being clean, textured, and having good pitch differentiation.

Hans I think you are right. The slam of the Theta DS Pro Progeny is greater than that of the Bifrost Uber, that includes basically all the percussion instruments I was hearing; not just bass instruments / electronic bass. It is just as revealing as the Bifrost Uber because I noticed the same digital artifacts on my less-than-perfect masterings and no traces of digital artifacts on my best recordings. In other words it doesn't just glance over the music like a lot of "warmer" sounding DACs.

 

[ciphercomplete]

  Sounds like something is coming.

 
Yeah like a truckload of used $1500+ DACs will be for sell soon.

 

[wahsmoh]

We can't help it we just want the latest and greatest

 

[barid]

   
Are you saying the extra balls in the bass is less neutral than what you'd get from the Bifrost? How are you sure that's just not closer to how it should sound? Usually the best DACs will have excellent slam and power in the bass while still being clean, textured, and having good pitch differentiation.

 
Actually just got a Bifrost Uber last Friday and have spent the last few days with it.  I'd say bass is "ever-present" yet doesn't seem to go as low or be as punchy as the benchmark 2 or whatever burr brown implementation is in the MHA100 (only 2 other DACs I have on hand right now).  It imparts a very meaty full-bodied up-front sound on basically everything yet can also sometimes come off as almost flat/condensed in a way where its not extending to the extreme highs or lows, or maybe I'm just missing some of the air between the notes.  Or I could just not be used to the signature yet....whatevs.

 

[wahsmoh]

   
Actually just got a Bifrost Uber last Friday and have spent the last few days with it.  I'd say bass is "ever-present" yet doesn't seem to go as low or be as punchy as the benchmark 2 or whatever burr brown implementation is in the MHA100 (only 2 other DACs I have on hand right now).  It imparts a very meaty full-bodied up-front sound on basically everything yet can also sometimes come off as almost flat/condensed in a way where its not extending to the extreme highs or lows, or maybe I'm just missing some of the air between the notes.  Or I could just not be used to the signature yet....whatevs.

I have the same feelings as you. I think that is where the Theta DAC I have that uses the Burr Brown PCM67P-k and a single Motorala DSP56001 imparts it's main strengths. The Bifrost is definitely warm and full bodied but the Theta DAC is almost like having an analog bass boost(for songs with bass) as well as sounding smoother in the highs than the Bifrost Uber (slightly though and not as big of a difference as the bass factor)
 
also.. the soundstage. The Bifrost Uber is focused and has moderate sized soundstage with good instrument separation, but the Theta DS Pro Progeny has something special about it that I can't put my finger on.. it sounds more 3D where the back to-L/R-to front of the Bifrost Uber isn't as mesmerizing. Last night I stayed up til 2 AM listening to it, I couldn't sleep

 

[Insidious Meme]

I know purrin is on to something. I'm guessing it has been alluded to in a previous post. But I'll just have to wait and see like everyone else.

 

[prot]

Or just use a Tube VST plug-in which you can roll tube with a simple mouse click.

Interesting one, I'll have a try next time I visit home

Maybe consider the new Gustard X20 that's supposed to be released in a limited run around May timeframe? Pricing hasn't been released yet, but I'm guessing it will be in your budget. Check the general Gustard thread in the Amp forum for more info. The X20 uses the Sabre chip, but so does the X12, which isn't supposed to be harsh. Nobody has heard the X20, though, and I haven't heard the X12 so I'm just throwing out an option, not speaking from experience.

Rumor says ~$630. Havent tried any of their Dacs but quite happy with the u12 usb-spdif

 

[Sorrodje]

 
Hans I think you are right. The slam of the Theta DS Pro Progeny is greater than that of the Bifrost Uber, that includes basically all the percussion instruments I was hearing; not just bass instruments / electronic bass. It is just as revealing as the Bifrost Uber because I noticed the same digital artifacts on my less-than-perfect masterings and no traces of digital artifacts on my best recordings. In other words it doesn't just glance over the music like a lot of "warmer" sounding DACs.

 
 
Match definitely with my Experience with the totalDAC vs other DAC i know. More Slam, more resolution , more inner detail, more everything. Less forgiving too.   A bit more expensive than your progeny though

 

[prot]

Did anyone try the new Hegel midrange Dac? http://www.hegel.com/products/dac/hd12
AKM chip and at about $1400 sounds like a good candidate for the anti-sabre brigade ... some review links on the right side of their page.

 

[korzena]

I would like to upgrade my Bifrost DAC in order to get more from my LCD-2.2 headphones. 
 
At the moment I am considering Resonessence Labs Concero HD, Meier Audio Daccord and Gungnir. I would appreciate advice regarding these DACs or other DAC recommendations within my budget of $1000/€1000 for my system. Thanks!

 

[Yoga]

   
I believe this is the natural competition for the Wyrd, unless the term 'decrapifier' encompasses something beyond what iFi claims their iPurifier does. 
 
http://www.hdphonic.com/en/hardware/ifi-ipurifier/

Thanks - I happen to own one of those, worked a treat in both my systems!

 

[purrin]

 
I have the same feelings as you. I think that is where the Theta DAC I have that uses the Burr Brown PCM67P-k and a single Motorala DSP56001 imparts it's main strengths. The Bifrost is definitely warm and full bodied but the Theta DAC is almost like having an analog bass boost(for songs with bass) as well as sounding smoother in the highs than the Bifrost Uber (slightly though and not as big of a difference as the bass factor)
 
also.. the soundstage. The Bifrost Uber is focused and has moderate sized soundstage with good instrument separation, but the Theta DS Pro Progeny has something special about it that I can't put my finger on.. it sounds more 3D where the back to-L/R-to front of the Bifrost Uber isn't as mesmerizing. Last night I stayed up til 2 AM listening to it, I couldn't sleep

 
In the overall scheme of things, Bifrost Uber lacks a little at the extremes, doesn't punch or throw bass as well well, and is a tiny bit grainy / unrefined on the top end. Just nitpicking. A DAC like the Gungnir solves these issues, but the Gungnir is no better in terms of resolution.
 
Because of the Motorola DSP56001, I believe the Progeny has the "secret sauce" digital filter (maybe a scaled down version) of what's found in the GenIII, Gen V and Yggy. It is this digital filter that gives you the 3D, front-to-back, up-and-down, sense of venue effect. You will be surprised by the holographic imaging for months if not years on end. You will never tire of it. In fact, you will think that almost any DAC without it has sucky imaging and you will be forced to only want to buy stuff made by Mike Moffat with the "secret sauce" filter. Doubters like Arnaud believe the "secret sauce", closed-form, divide-by-zero, retains original samples, digital filter is marketing BS, but as you have experienced, it is very very real.
 
The PCM67 is interesting. It's an R2R for the 10 LSB at 18-bit linearity and delta-sigma 1-bit for the remaining bits.
 
You got a great deal on this. Looking for one myself based on curiosity. I didn't realize that Theta/Moffat trickled down their Gen V tech to such an extent.

 

[drfindley]

 
The PCM67 is interesting. It's an R2R for 10bits at 18-bit linearity and delta-sigma 1-bit for the remaining bits.
 
You got a great deal on this. Looking for one myself based on curiosity. I didn't realize that Theta/Moffat trickled down their Gen V tech to such an extent.

 
This gives me hope that Yggy filter will make it into cheaper tech. I'm planning on getting a Yggy, but I listen to music in more than one place and buying a Yggy for all of them? Spendy.

 

[AustinValentine]

 
Because of the Motorola DSP56001, I believe the Progeny has the "secret sauce" digital filter (maybe a scaled down version) of what's found in the Gen V and Yggy. It's this digital filter that gives you the 3D, front-to-back, up-and-down, sense of venue effect. You will be surprised by the holographic imaging for months if not years on end. You will never tire of it. In fact, you will think that almost any DAC without it has sucky imaging and you will be forced to only want to buy stuff made by Mike Moffat with the "secret sauce" filter
 
You got a great deal on this. Looking for one myself based on curiosity. I didn't realize that Theta/Moffat trickled down their Gen V tech to such an extent.

 
My experience with this is actually what makes me hopeful about Yggy tech trickling down the product line in the future. That's a spot on description of the digital filter. I've cycled through a number of PCM63 and PCM1702 DACs using DF1700P and PMD100 and none of them have sounded as good as the Progeny yet. Pretty damn impressive overall.