[Silverwind]

  uh, "600 ohm headphone amp"? that doesn't make sense, does it have a 600 ohm output impedance or something?
 
also is it a desktop PC or a laptop? most laptops have good soundcards already and if so you probably wont notice a difference with a new DAC

It is from a desktop PC.
 
Sorry about the lack of description, creative labels it as a 600ohm capable headphone amp to differentiate from the on-board not being able to power higher impedance headphones.  The input impedance I believe is about 22ohm. It uses the same built-in amp as the soundblaster Z, the Maxim MAX97220A.  The power is going to be much less than the Magni, but is it enough for a 32ohm headphone?  
 
These are the specs on the chip they use for the amp:
http://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/analog/audio/MAX97220A.html

1. Output Power 125mW into 32Ω with a 5V Supply

 

[takato14]

 

  uh, "600 ohm headphone amp"? that doesn't make sense, does it have a 600 ohm output impedance or something?
 
also is it a desktop PC or a laptop? most laptops have good soundcards already and if so you probably wont notice a difference with a new DAC

 
Sorry about the lack of description, creative labels it as a 600ohm capable headphone amp to differentiate from the on-board not being able to power higher impedance headphones. 

Input impedance should be somewhere in the 22KOhm range, so I assume you meant output impedance. If that spec is accurate (22 ohms), you're going to run into bass problems with the X1. However, I'd say skip the Magni/Modi, they're not good enough to warrant it unless you're using super current-hungry headphones like planars/isodynamics. 
 
I'd say look into an Objective2 + ODAC setup. That would pair marvelously with the X1, and be transportable to boot if you got the seperate units.

 

[Defiant00]

  Input impedance should be somewhere in the 22KOhm range, so I assume you meant output impedance. If that spec is accurate (22 ohms), you're going to run into bass problems with the X1. However, I'd say skip the Magni/Modi, they're not good enough to warrant it unless you're using super current-hungry headphones like planars/isodynamics. 
 
I'd say look into an Objective2 + ODAC setup. That would pair marvelously with the X1, and be transportable to boot if you got the seperate units.

 
I have to disagree with you here. If the Magni/Modi isn't "good enough" then I'd say the O2/ODAC isn't "good enough" either, as they sound effectively the same to my ears.

 

[Silverwind]

I have to disagree with you here. If the Magni/Modi isn't "good enough" then I'd say the O2/ODAC isn't "good enough" either, as they sound effectively the same to my ears.

I was a little confused by that as well, without some backup explanation.

Input impedance should be somewhere in the 22KOhm range, so I assume you meant output impedance. If that spec is accurate (22 ohms), you're going to run into bass problems with the X1.

Yes I'm sorry I meant 22ohm output impedance.

 

[takato14]

  I have to disagree with you here. If the Magni/Modi isn't "good enough" then I'd say the O2/ODAC isn't "good enough" either, as they sound effectively the same to my ears.

wow, are you serious? 
 
even if that ludicrous statement was anywhere close to being true, the O2 setup is nearly half the size and is fully transportable, whereas the magni is tied to the wall with a giant transformer

 

[Defiant00]

  wow, are you serious? 
 
even if that ludicrous statement was anywhere close to being true, the O2 setup is nearly half the size and is fully transportable, whereas the magni is tied to the wall with a giant transformer

 
Yes, quite serious, and my experience seems to match the general opinion expressed on this thread (at least around the time the Magni and Modi came out) that they were quite similar.
 
And yes, if you're running your O2 off of batteries then that obviously makes it more easily transportable. The Magni's wall wart is pretty small though; I certainly didn't have any trouble carrying the whole stack in one hand.
 
Anyways, not sure what prompted this level of hostile response, I'm just reporting my personal experience. The usual disclaimers of course apply: to my ears, with my cans, YMMV, etc.
 
The M&M are cheaper and (in my opinion) look better and the O2/ODAC are more transportable and flexible due to the gain toggle, but to my ears both sounded good.

 

[takato14]

 

  wow, are you serious? 
 
even if that ludicrous statement was anywhere close to being true, the O2 setup is nearly half the size and is fully transportable, whereas the magni is tied to the wall with a giant transformer

 
Yes, quite serious, and my experience seems to match the general opinion expressed on this thread (at least around the time the Magni and Modi came out) that they were quite similar.
 
And yes, if you're running your O2 off of batteries then that obviously makes it more easily transportable. The Magni's wall wart is pretty small though; I certainly didn't have any trouble carrying the whole stack in one hand.
 
Anyways, not sure what prompted this level of hostile response, I'm just reporting my personal experience. The usual disclaimers of course apply: to my ears, with my cans, YMMV, etc.
 
The M&M are cheaper and (in my opinion) look better and the O2/ODAC are more transportable and flexible due to the gain toggle, but to my ears both sounded good.

I wasn't being hostile, its just the Magni isn't nearly as well designed as the O2 and I'm really sick of hearing people say they sound the same, because they don't. They're polar opposites pairing wise; the O2 is made for voltage-hungry gear while the Magni is made for current-hungy gear. There's also the fact that the Magni is strictly a budget-oriented amp whereas the O2 is ridiculously overdesigned and by far the best measuring amp anywhere near its price point. 
 

 
Yes I'm sorry I meant 22ohm output impedance.

Yeah, you will want to upgrade the amp as soon as possible. A good rule of thumb with impedance matching is that you should be able to multiply the amp's output impedance by 8 and still have it be less than the headphone's nominal impedance. Since the X1 is 32 ohms... yeah. Bad.

 

[Defiant00]

  I wasn't being hostile, its just the Magni isn't nearly as well designed as the O2 and I'm really sick of hearing people say they sound the same, because they don't. They're polar opposites pairing wise; the O2 is made for voltage-hungry gear while the Magni is made for current-hungy gear. There's also the fact that the Magni is strictly a budget-oriented amp whereas the O2 is ridiculously overdesigned and by far the best measuring amp anywhere near its price point. 

 
Pretty bold claims to be making with no proof or measurements offered.
 
And if that would involve linking somewhere that you aren't supposed to on Head-Fi then feel free to PM me.
 
I'm genuinely interested in seeing these objective facts that prove the Magni isn't as well designed as the O2, and that the Magni is strictly a budget-oriented amp (in direct comparison to the O2).

 

[x838nwy]

Pretty bold claims to be making with no proof or measurements offered.

And if that would involve linking somewhere that you aren't supposed to on Head-Fi then feel free to PM me.

I'm genuinely interested in seeing these objective facts that prove the Magni isn't as well designed as the O2, and that the Magni is strictly a budget-oriented amp (in direct comparison to the O2).

You're forgetting the fact that the O2 is like the bestest amplifier for headphones ever, ever, ever, ever in the history of the human race AND the future of all that will ever be until the end of eternity. There has never been anything better and there never ever will be even a possibility of ever being anything better. Ever. Cos i read a blog about it.

All other manufacturers should just go home and cry. In fact, all amplifier threads should just be closed. It's the first and to this day remains the only amp designed with like measurements and $hit. Everyone else just designed by rubbing two ducks together and hoped for the best.

Footnote: i claim these facts as true. To say i am wrong, you must produce a congress-approved peer reviewed double blind study with a sample size of at least the population of California along with a detailed history of amplifier design verified by at least 3 international bodies. Cos if you don't you're just being biased and stating claims wthout verifications.

 

[Defiant00]

You're forgetting the fact that the O2 is like the bestest amplifier for headphones ever, ever, ever, ever in the history of the human race AND the future of all that will ever be until the end of eternity. There has never been anything better and there never ever will be even a possibility of ever being anything better. Ever. Cos i read a blog about it.

All other manufacturers should just go home and cry. In fact, all amplifier threads should just be closed. It's the first and to this day remains the only amp designed with like measurements and $hit. Everyone else just designed by rubbing two ducks together and hoped for the best.

Footnote: i claim these facts as true. To say i am wrong, you must produce a congress-approved peer reviewed double blind study with a sample size of at least the population of California along with a detailed history of amplifier design verified by at least 3 international bodies. Cos if you don't you're just being biased and stating claims wthout verifications.

 
Ah, right, I did forget that.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 Excellent job there, I especially liked the part about rubbing ducks together and hoping for the best. 

 

[Jason Stoddard]

You're forgetting the fact that the O2 is like the bestest amplifier for headphones ever, ever, ever, ever in the history of the human race AND the future of all that will ever be until the end of eternity. There has never been anything better and there never ever will be even a possibility of ever being anything better. Ever. Cos i read a blog about it.

All other manufacturers should just go home and cry. In fact, all amplifier threads should just be closed. It's the first and to this day remains the only amp designed with like measurements and $hit. Everyone else just designed by rubbing two ducks together and hoped for the best.

Footnote: i claim these facts as true. To say i am wrong, you must produce a congress-approved peer reviewed double blind study with a sample size of at least the population of California along with a detailed history of amplifier design verified by at least 3 international bodies. Cos if you don't you're just being biased and stating claims wthout verifications.

 
I really, really like this guy. In a guy kind of way.
 
I think it would be helpful if there were some guidelines for objective and subjective reviews:
 
1. For objective tests: The type of test equipment you are using, your level of experience with it, recent certificate of calibration for the instrument, summaries of measurements made and presentation of complete results. It would also be helpful to know a brief summary of your engineering background. If qualitative opinions are provided regarding the data, such as "A is clearly superior to B", references (such as audibility of distortion, etc) should be cited to help the reader understand why the evaluator came to this conclusion. 
 
2. For subjective tests: Your associated equipment, your overall level of experience with similar equipment, what you listened to, how you evaluated A vs B (sighted listening, ABX, single-blind, etc), a summary of your own sonic preferences, and a disclaimer that these are your conclusions and yours alone; other people looking for different sonic signatures and/or with different systems may think differently. Also, any disclosures about how you obtained the equipment (purchased, loaner, used, etc..) should be provided.
 
Of course, this is my opinion--and, as such, has no real weight. But hey, I can dream.

 

[Estremo]

 
 
also is it a desktop PC or a laptop? most laptops have good soundcards already and if so you probably wont notice a difference with a new DAC

 
I thought a laptop was a bad source since it's pretty noicy because of all the electronics that is fitted in a small place? This is actually my main reason for thinking of getting a Modi instead of running my Vali directly from my laptop.

 

[takato14]

 

 
 
also is it a desktop PC or a laptop? most laptops have good soundcards already and if so you probably wont notice a difference with a new DAC

 
I thought a laptop was a bad source since it's pretty noicy because of all the electronics that is fitted in a small place? This is actually my main reason for thinking of getting a Modi instead of running my Vali directly from my laptop.

That wasn't my point; no integrated soundcard is amazing, and you're not going to get world-class sound from a laptop. My point is that a huge portion of the audio chips in desktops are quite literally the cheapest single-chip implementations possible. The manufacturer assumes any user who even remotely cares about audio quality is just going to use their own PCI/PCI-E sound card, so they don't waste any money on putting a not-**** chip on the motherboard, whereas a laptop manufacturer knows that it's impossible to add another sound card to a laptop without having tumors or cables jutting off of it.
 
Regarding the Vali, you would benefit from a Modi but not because the chip in your laptop is low quality. By running it off the laptop's output, you're doing what's called double-amping, which isn't good for audio quality. You could hook it up to the best amp in the world this way and it'd still cause noticeable quality loss. A Modi would bypass that and prevent the inherent signal quality degredation. 

 

[UmustBKidn]

You're forgetting the fact that the O2 is like the bestest amplifier for headphones ever, ever, ever, ever in the history of the human race AND the future of all that will ever be until the end of eternity. There has never been anything better and there never ever will be even a possibility of ever being anything better. Ever. Cos i read a blog about it.

All other manufacturers should just go home and cry. In fact, all amplifier threads should just be closed. It's the first and to this day remains the only amp designed with like measurements and $hit. Everyone else just designed by rubbing two ducks together and hoped for the best.

Footnote: i claim these facts as true. To say i am wrong, you must produce a congress-approved peer reviewed double blind study with a sample size of at least the population of California along with a detailed history of amplifier design verified by at least 3 international bodies. Cos if you don't you're just being biased and stating claims wthout verifications.

 
I am reminded of a story... We were getting our pool re-plastered. That is a fascinating thing to watch, if you've never seen it happen. Anyway, they had just finished, and started to put water in the pool immediately. My ex came out of the house and said "Wow, that looks great! When are they going to put the blue dye in the water?"
...
 
That being said, you should bring all arguments about such things to the Sound Science forum, and help us argue whether Burn In is Real or Placebo. This is a simply fascinating discussion that just keeps going and going and going and ... well, going. Currently. we're arguing about current, and I have been doing some fascinating experiments on the effects of Rum and Whiskey on sound quality. In particular, whether Gluten Free potato vodka is really superior to Pappy Van Winkle.
 
Oh wait, nevermind. Someone locked that thread. Whoopsie.
 
Btw, it's hard to pin down the size of the population of California. There have been a lot of new additions lately.

 

[Rudiger]

(...)

   
I really, really like this guy. In a guy kind of way.
 
I think it would be helpful if there were some guidelines for objective and subjective reviews:
 
1. For objective tests: The type of test equipment you are using, your level of experience with it, recent certificate of calibration for the instrument, summaries of measurements made and presentation of complete results. It would also be helpful to know a brief summary of your engineering background. If qualitative opinions are provided regarding the data, such as "A is clearly superior to B", references (such as audibility of distortion, etc) should be cited to help the reader understand why the evaluator came to this conclusion. 
 
2. For subjective tests: Your associated equipment, your overall level of experience with similar equipment, what you listened to, how you evaluated A vs B (sighted listening, ABX, single-blind, etc), a summary of your own sonic preferences, and a disclaimer that these are your conclusions and yours alone; other people looking for different sonic signatures and/or with different systems may think differently. Also, any disclosures about how you obtained the equipment (purchased, loaner, used, etc..) should be provided.
 
Of course, this is my opinion--and, as such, has no real weight. But hey, I can dream.

 
Missing a key element: it is necessary to ask people their pay to understand their choice