[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

That's interesting. Personally, I feel like the bass punch with the S500s is non existent. It has the nice rumbly sub bass, but it is very soft and doesn't have much impact. If the WS99s have even less punch I can't even imagine. Do the WS99s have less punch than the CKN70s?

I would also like to know on WS99 how it is, I feel a lot of people confuse the bass frequencies, the impact & punch is mostly added by midbass (around 80-120Hz especially) while subbass "fills" it up to be rounder, more "fat" but subbass on its own is very "soft" in the impact. In nearly EVERY EDM genre both midbass and subbass is used, mostly they are both used at the same time to give more impact. Bass beats just typically contains both. Especially rap though likes to use a bit subbass frequencies on its own here and there, maybe not that often anymore but a bit older rap that wroooooom-wroooom sound is heard without the "thump", "dong", "tok" etc midbass sound. ^^

The music I listen to needs a great deal of both and balanced presence to sound right. XB700 that is among the most subbass focused headphones in existence sounded very wrong to me for this music (hardstyle) at least.

 

[journeyy]

Quote:

 
The WS99's seem to have great sub-bass, bass extension,control, layering and detail - I suppose you could say "bass refinement". Kind of a deep, visceral bass that doesn't impede upon or muddy up the mids at all. But I wouldn't say that the WS99's bass has a lot of "punch". Personally, I find that the S500's have more bass punch, probably because they have more mid-bass. I don't find the bass of the WS99's fatiguing, but I find the S500 bass to be a bit fatiguing after a while. So I'm not actually sure that the bass of the WS99's is exactly what you are looking for.

 
It's interesting how different people perceive bass/sub bass. I thought the WS99 had a lot more (and cleaner) mid bass than the S500, which has an emphasized sub bass. Are there measurements of the WS99 to be found anywhere?

 

[Jung Woo Cho]

Do they use the same pads? And they are upgrades when it comes to sound, right?

in terms of sound definitely yes. In fact by a significant margin. Although I find myself liking the old at sound once in a while^^

 

[Jung Woo Cho]

The pads are different. Ws55x is softer

 

[Oregonian]

Quote:

I would also like to know on WS99 how it is, I feel a lot of people confuse the bass frequencies, the impact & punch is mostly added by midbass (around 80-120Hz especially) while subbass "fills" it up to be rounder, more "fat" but subbass on its own is very "soft" in the impact. In nearly EVERY EDM genre both midbass and subbass is used, mostly they are both used at the same time to give more impact. Bass beats just typically contains both. Especially rap though likes to use a bit subbass frequencies on its own here and there, maybe not that often anymore but a bit older rap that wroooooom-wroooom sound is heard without the "thump", "dong", "tok" etc midbass sound. ^^

The music I listen to needs a great deal of both and balanced presence to sound right. XB700 that is among the most subbass focused headphones in existence sounded very wrong to me for this music (hardstyle) at least.

Knowing your love of the Q40, as do I, the WS99 will not meet your needs in my opinion.  Had them for a few days and away they went. 

 

[Bill-P]

Quote:

I would also like to know on WS99 how it is, I feel a lot of people confuse the bass frequencies, the impact & punch is mostly added by midbass (around 80-120Hz especially) while subbass "fills" it up to be rounder, more "fat" but subbass on its own is very "soft" in the impact. In nearly EVERY EDM genre both midbass and subbass is used, mostly they are both used at the same time to give more impact. Bass beats just typically contains both. Especially rap though likes to use a bit subbass frequencies on its own here and there, maybe not that often anymore but a bit older rap that wroooooom-wroooom sound is heard without the "thump", "dong", "tok" etc midbass sound. ^^

The music I listen to needs a great deal of both and balanced presence to sound right. XB700 that is among the most subbass focused headphones in existence sounded very wrong to me for this music (hardstyle) at least.

 
You know, you may want to skip all of this and go ask music_daedalus if he has any modded T5P left.
 
His modded T5P is the craziest bass monster I have ever heard. It sounded like it had a ZO2 on RED permanently attached.

 

[Jung Woo Cho]

Lol but t5p is way more expensive. I agree on the bass on the modded t5p though. Once heard the neutrik balanced mod t5p at jaben and only with an ipod touch the bass was alr at its best. Made the original t5p sounds like a crap.

 

[Bill-P]

Yeah. I think that one is clearly the ultimate basshead can.
 
It has the signature Beyerdynamic sound, which is detailed, airy, clean, and clear. But then the bass... oh man, DAT BASS!
 
It shames everything in existence.
 
And the crazy part was that you can hear that bass out of an iPod without any EQ or amping. It's amazing.

 

[Jung Woo Cho]

Haha but I think the solid bass headphones holds a class of its own. I much prefer sound sig of all solid bass cans over t5p modded/unmodded.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

I'm personally looking for the holy grail with as strong bass as possible (still within reason, not XB-monster like bass) with as good quality as possible overall, I'm looking for balanced mid vs highs presence vs a fairly bumped bass. Need also balanced subbass vs midbass presence and it obviously has to be closed and deliver great textured but thumping and punchy bass while also sounding nice with acoustic etc music. I may be asking for the impossible but I feel M-Audio Q40 actually deliver all my demands why I'm not uberkeen on testing new headphones as I feel I'm probably already using what is pretty ideal for my needs, I just can't seem to find any "Q40 replacement" which does everything similarly but better, I always find headphones which doesn't have one thing I'm looking for which Q40 have. The only real improvement I would gladly welcome is a bit larger soundstage but I do like this more "in-your-face" soundstage of Q40, I just wish the soundstage "borders" were dragged out so to speak so there's even more sense of space between instruments without getting "distant" sounding. I mean for example vocalist could still be very much in your face but the acoustic guitar could have a more space in-between the singer, that kind of change.

I mean Q40 already have:

- Balanced subbass vs midbass presence (the peak is centered around 80Hz which is roughly where I consider the barrier between subbass and midbass goes)
- Balanced mids vs highs presence (It really is a "^--" shape response which is suprisingly hard to find)
- Great bass quality vs quantity ratio
- More engaging "in-your-face"-signature (which is good for my electronic dance music needs as I want to feel engaged when listening to music, not relaxed)
 
WS99: 
 
Seems to do everything except the bass quantity (don't know about midbass vs subbass presence either).

 

 

[DannyBai]

Well I think with your ZO, the WS99's will satisfy you. The 99's do have a good mix of sub and mid bass presence.

 

[Omnom]

Quote:

I'm personally looking for the holy grail with as strong bass as possible (still within reason, not XB-monster like bass) with as good quality as possible overall, I'm looking for balanced mid vs highs presence vs a fairly bumped bass. Need also balanced subbass vs midbass presence and it obviously has to be closed and deliver great textured but thumping and punchy bass while also sounding nice with acoustic etc music. I may be asking for the impossible but I feel M-Audio Q40 actually deliver all my demands why I'm not uberkeen on testing new headphones as I feel I'm probably already using what is pretty ideal for my needs, I just can't seem to find any "Q40 replacement" which does everything similarly but better, I always find headphones which doesn't have one thing I'm looking for which Q40 have. The only real improvement I would gladly welcome is a bit larger soundstage but I do like this more "in-your-face" soundstage of Q40, I just wish the soundstage "borders" were dragged out so to speak so there's even more sense of space between instruments without getting "distant" sounding. I mean for example vocalist could still be very much in your face but the acoustic guitar could have a more space in-between the singer, that kind of change.

I mean Q40 already have:

- Balanced subbass vs midbass presence (the peak is centered around 80Hz which is roughly where I consider the barrier between subbass and midbass goes)
- Balanced mids vs highs presence (It really is a "^--" shape response which is suprisingly hard to find)
- Great bass quality vs quantity ratio
- More engaging "in-your-face"-signature (which is good for my electronic dance music needs as I want to feel engaged when listening to music, not relaxed)
 
WS99: 
 
Seems to do everything except the bass quantity (don't know about midbass vs subbass presence either).

 

Hey RPG,
I've seen you round this thread for a while now, and I must say, you kinda remind me of me! Haha, wanting the best of the best, but not at the cost of losing your entire wallet. I search and search looking for that one. 

But the thing I've found is. People can say this or that. They can say it has more bass, or less. I'm sure you've heard this before, but you really won't know what the WS99's are like unless you actually get them and do a little comparo with your Q40's. Don't like em. Pass them on. But sitting here contemplating 'um's' and 'ahh's' will get you no further. (Haha I do that too!)'
 
In my honest opinon I find that the WS99's are definitely not bass thumpers. They have bass presence and quality, but they are not overall bass head material. I throughly enjoy/enjoyed them when I listen as they just have that musical full bodied sound. Its just great to jam around to! However mine are a little defective now with one driver being quieter and of a less sound quality than the other.
 
Just my thoughts RPG, I say go and get em, end this! For now....

Cheers

 

[waynes world]

Quote:

In my honest opinon I find that the WS99's are definitely not bass thumpers. They have bass presence and quality, but they are not overall bass head material. I throughly enjoy/enjoyed them when I listen as they just have that musical full bodied sound. Its just great to jam around to! 

 
+1! That sums them up nicely Omnom!
 

However mine are a little defective now with one driver being quieter and of a less sound quality than the other.

 
That's a bummer. Any chance of getting them fixed?

 

[7S Cameron]

Quote:

I'm personally looking for the holy grail with as strong bass as possible (still within reason, not XB-monster like bass) with as good quality as possible overall, I'm looking for balanced mid vs highs presence vs a fairly bumped bass. Need also balanced subbass vs midbass presence and it obviously has to be closed and deliver great textured but thumping and punchy bass while also sounding nice with acoustic etc music. I may be asking for the impossible but I feel M-Audio Q40 actually deliver all my demands why I'm not uberkeen on testing new headphones as I feel I'm probably already using what is pretty ideal for my needs, I just can't seem to find any "Q40 replacement" which does everything similarly but better, I always find headphones which doesn't have one thing I'm looking for which Q40 have. The only real improvement I would gladly welcome is a bit larger soundstage but I do like this more "in-your-face" soundstage of Q40, I just wish the soundstage "borders" were dragged out so to speak so there's even more sense of space between instruments without getting "distant" sounding. I mean for example vocalist could still be very much in your face but the acoustic guitar could have a more space in-between the singer, that kind of change.

I mean Q40 already have:

- Balanced subbass vs midbass presence (the peak is centered around 80Hz which is roughly where I consider the barrier between subbass and midbass goes)
- Balanced mids vs highs presence (It really is a "^--" shape response which is suprisingly hard to find)
- Great bass quality vs quantity ratio
- More engaging "in-your-face"-signature (which is good for my electronic dance music needs as I want to feel engaged when listening to music, not relaxed)
 
WS99: 
 
Seems to do everything except the bass quantity (don't know about midbass vs subbass presence either).

 

I feel like we are looking for the exact same thing. This is a sound I am able to attain in a car sound system, but I haven't found it in headphones yet. If you ever find the headphone you are looking for you better tell me! And I'll do the same.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

I feel like we are looking for the exact same thing. This is a sound I am able to attain in a car sound system, but I haven't found it in headphones yet. If you ever find the headphone you are looking for you better tell me! And I'll do the same.

 
Well I'm very satisfied with my current setup like I've mentioned but it's very weird setup and hard for others to believe it sounds good without having tested it themselves.

- M-Audio Q40 with stock pads that I've inserted a thin layer of paper towel underneath the pads to gain a tiny bit more depth. (too thick layer and the mids become too recessed though but a thin layer is beneficial for soundstage & better instrument separation and slightly clearer sounding as a result from less "thick" midrange)
- Stock cable swapped for a Monoprice 8323 DJ bundled 1.5m thin cable, the stock cable sounds pretty bad to my ears, smeared/warmer/smoother. Less dynamic.
- digiZoid ZO2.1 amp @ yellow-orange bass contour level range (I don't know exact level but I usually listen to some hardstyle during the kickpart and adjust at which I get the strongest vs clearest bass response (usually one certain level works best)
- ASRock Z87 Extreme6's onboard Realtek ALC1150 rated even 115dB SNR with 2x TI NE5532 opamps with a particular driver version (snagged from an ASUS board download page, I've tested all the driver versions from all the vendors with ALC1150 chip) used with the amped front panel jack.

Comments: Synergy is a bitch! It's very difficult to find a good working DAC + AMP combo as even an expensier setup there can sound worse if the synergy is bad. Suprisingly some Realtek onboard chips + ZO2.1 is like made to be used together, you wouldn't believe how great even onboard chip gets to sound like with this amp. In fact I'm selling my SoundBlaster ZxR, I've tested comparing like 5 times and everytime same conclusion, I prefer how the Realtek ALC1150 + digiZoid ZO2.1 sounds like. The ZO2.1 + ZxR is a poor pairing, the setup is a bit too muddy, lacking highs presence/sparkliness and the bass is a bit too overhelming ("clouded"). The ZO2.3 works generally significantly better with the ZxR though but the ZOv2.3 has a significantly worse midrange to my ears, it sounds so "unengaging" / non-involving, slightly recessed if you will why ZOv2.1 to me is highly preferred on a source which has good synergy with it such as the Realtek onboard, the bass is also punchier/more impactful/harder hitting on v2.1 vs 2.3. Realtek onboard also does 5.1 speakers particularly well like it would add tiny bit HRTF tweak in the process even for stereo material, aiding slightly with soundstage imaging, the ZxR had a more closed-in sound in comparison (stereo or 5.1, doesn't matter). With ALC1150 and ZO2.1 as opposed to ZxR and ZO2.1 I get much more aggressive & forward mids/highs, more tonally neutral, in fact pretty much what I percieve as neutral tonality (so no need for EQing, I always used EQ in the past to correct the balance to how I preferred it).

For now Q40 with the small tweaks + digiZoid ZO2.1 + the ASRock Z87 Realtek ALC1150 solution provides me with waaaaaaaaay better sound quality results than what that setup should be allowed to offer. But being a head-fi'er I always think that "what if" but time and time again when testing some new equipment it just tend to further confirm, the current setup is indeed working great for my needs/taste/preferences or whatever.