The Stax Thread III
Sep 22, 2017 at 6:20 PM Post #12,947 of 25,660
A few days ago, I removed the inner and outer (metal) screens of the 009s. The associated o-rings are still in place. The inner, fabric, dust screen had been previously removed, so now, “with screens” means without the inner dust screen. In both cases, the cups are held to my skull with 3 1”-wide elastic bands adjusted as tightly as I can enjoy over several hours of listening. Call it “snugly” !-) Also, ~3oz of tungsten beads are glued to each ear cups, for additional damping (which whose efficacy has not been verified with ABA…testing).

The following comparisons were done in the space of 24 hours without touching the volume control, so I had good aural memory for this simple A-B test. All statements are about the new screenless configuration wrt the old configuration with screens. Subsequent listening over several days confirms the improvements heard in the A-B test.

Linda Ronstadt, Hasten Down the Wind, S2
Linda’s voice is even purer, more beautiful and more “immediate”: i.e., it “is like” a veil has been removed, and, of course, that is the physical case. Nuances of her singing technique and her expressions are clearer. The direct and ambient components of her voice are more easily distinguished. Expanding the scope to the whole gestalt, including Linda, everything is “easier” and more relaxed at the same time that it is clearer, cleaner and more defined. It is easier to understand words. It is easier to hear the whole lines of background performers and how they play with and against the main line. It is easier to hear the vocal characteristics and nuanced expressions of individual members of vocal backup ensemble. Turning attention to the various accompanying instruments, the piano is “purer” and more beautiful, impact on drums and the effects of their components (like skins) are more apparent, giving a sound that is simultaneously more impactful and relaxed, metallic percussion is cleaner.

L’Histoire du Soldat, Reference Recordings, S1
Improved purity of timbres, clarity of technique, expression and instrumental “action” (e.g., skins, bows), more relaxed sound yet with greater impact, greater continuity and individuality of secondary and/or parallel main musical lines: pretty consistent with “Hasten Down the Wind”. However, the first thing that hit me was in the gestalt domain: stereo. I use the word “stereo” with emphasis on its root meaning, “solid”, in the sense of having a clear illusion of “solid” performers and their instruments in a real acoustic space. The improvement of the stereo illusion on this recording done with minimalist miking is striking: without their screens the 009s do a better job of transporting you to the event recorded.


Manhattan Transfer, Extensions, Birdland
From the drop of the needle, aaah, and Wow: a gestalt that is simultaneously more relaxed and impactful. Details would be repetitive of descriptions above. Notable improvements are the richness and beauty of the piano, and delicacy of cymbal work.


Peter, Paul and Mary, Album 1700
Ditto. Aspects I found particularly outstanding without the screens was “openness” of the soundscape, i.e. the “spaces” between performers (presumably in their own tracks) were bigger. I think that some reviewers refer to what I was hearing as “blacker backgrounds”, which is a good description of the impression. Also, counter intuitively; the bass line was easier to follow with more definite pitches.


Wagner, Das Rheingold, London, Solti
Ditto. The prelude is Wagner’s musical picture of the Rheine as it flows in the narrows around the Lorelei. Tthe intrinsic sonic beauty of various choirs in the orchestra are more manifest. Diction is clearer. The Rheine maidens are more distinctive from one another. Notable from the last of 6 sides was the purity of Wotan’s voice and the stereo stage presentation.


Beethoven’s 9th, Solti, 4th movement
Removing the screens increases both the power and clarity of the opening’s lower strings, improves the consistency of suspension of disbelief re. being present in a large hall with many performers, clarifies the individuality and interplay of musical lines, allows singers to sound less shouty and more beautiful, improves intelligibility of words even when there are multiple lines being sung. I.e., ditto.

Realistically, all the improvements described above without the screens do not change the basic character of the 009s all that much. After all, these are improvements to an already world class transducer.

I cannot recommend that people repeat this at home, as it leaves the 009s much more open to serious damage. I have not experienced any shocks during this exercise. I am glad that I acquired (at least) a (cheap) headphone stand, to keep the 009s safer when not in use. If anyone knows of any danger to the listener, please let me know, asap.
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 7:02 PM Post #12,948 of 25,660
My main amp is a BHSE. It replaced an *old* SRM-T1. Can anybody direct me to instructions for
1) maintenance of the T1, e.g., replacing caps
2) improving the T1?
Thanks!


I published an article in the July, 2017 issue of AudioXpress magazine on maintenance and modifications to improve the T1. There is one modification which I inadvertently omitted from the article, which is to insert 4.7 megohm safety resistors in line between the bias supply on the circuit board and the front panel terminals for both the normal and pro bias terminals - I used Vishay VR37000004704JA100 resistors, available from Mouser. You should be able to get a copy of the issue from the audioxpress.com website.

A few days ago, I removed the inner and outer (metal) screens of the 009s. The associated o-rings are still in place. The inner, fabric, dust screen had been previously removed, so now, “with screens” means without the inner dust screen.

I cannot recommend that people repeat this at home, as it leaves the 009s much more open to serious damage. I have not experienced any shocks during this exercise. I am glad that I acquired (at least) a (cheap) headphone stand, to keep the 009s safer when not in use. If anyone knows of any danger to the listener, please let me know, asap.

Maybe not a danger to the listener, but if you removed the inner dust screen (membrane) which protects the driver membrane, that is going to allow dust to adhere to the driver membrane, which is not a good thing.
 
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Sep 22, 2017 at 9:57 PM Post #12,949 of 25,660
if its in both channels, it has to be a power supply issue. possibly the bias supply, although failures there are really rare.

thanks for replying.. I do remember a quiet mechanical buzzing coming from some caps in the amp for a while now but it wasnt audible in the signal.. guess they finally went. now putting my ear to the amp i hear more of a quiet tone than a buzzing coming from the electronics.

when the incedent happened.. it was only 2 minutes into my first song..and i noticed the volume seemed abnormally louder than usual from the start... do you think that would give cause to look at the bias?
 
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Sep 23, 2017 at 3:20 AM Post #12,950 of 25,660
A few days ago, I removed the inner and outer (metal) screens of the 009s. The associated o-rings are still in place. The inner, fabric, dust screen had been previously removed, so now, “with screens” means without the inner dust screen. In both cases, the cups are held to my skull with 3 1”-wide elastic bands adjusted as tightly as I can enjoy over several hours of listening. Call it “snugly” !-) Also, ~3oz of tungsten beads are glued to each ear cups, for additional damping (which whose efficacy has not been verified with ABA…testing).

The following comparisons were done in the space of 24 hours without touching the volume control, so I had good aural memory for this simple A-B test. All statements are about the new screenless configuration wrt the old configuration with screens. Subsequent listening over several days confirms the improvements heard in the A-B test.

Linda Ronstadt, Hasten Down the Wind, S2
Linda’s voice is even purer, more beautiful and more “immediate”: i.e., it “is like” a veil has been removed, and, of course, that is the physical case. Nuances of her singing technique and her expressions are clearer. The direct and ambient components of her voice are more easily distinguished. Expanding the scope to the whole gestalt, including Linda, everything is “easier” and more relaxed at the same time that it is clearer, cleaner and more defined. It is easier to understand words. It is easier to hear the whole lines of background performers and how they play with and against the main line. It is easier to hear the vocal characteristics and nuanced expressions of individual members of vocal backup ensemble. Turning attention to the various accompanying instruments, the piano is “purer” and more beautiful, impact on drums and the effects of their components (like skins) are more apparent, giving a sound that is simultaneously more impactful and relaxed, metallic percussion is cleaner.

L’Histoire du Soldat, Reference Recordings, S1
Improved purity of timbres, clarity of technique, expression and instrumental “action” (e.g., skins, bows), more relaxed sound yet with greater impact, greater continuity and individuality of secondary and/or parallel main musical lines: pretty consistent with “Hasten Down the Wind”. However, the first thing that hit me was in the gestalt domain: stereo. I use the word “stereo” with emphasis on its root meaning, “solid”, in the sense of having a clear illusion of “solid” performers and their instruments in a real acoustic space. The improvement of the stereo illusion on this recording done with minimalist miking is striking: without their screens the 009s do a better job of transporting you to the event recorded.


Manhattan Transfer, Extensions, Birdland
From the drop of the needle, aaah, and Wow: a gestalt that is simultaneously more relaxed and impactful. Details would be repetitive of descriptions above. Notable improvements are the richness and beauty of the piano, and delicacy of cymbal work.


Peter, Paul and Mary, Album 1700
Ditto. Aspects I found particularly outstanding without the screens was “openness” of the soundscape, i.e. the “spaces” between performers (presumably in their own tracks) were bigger. I think that some reviewers refer to what I was hearing as “blacker backgrounds”, which is a good description of the impression. Also, counter intuitively; the bass line was easier to follow with more definite pitches.


Wagner, Das Rheingold, London, Solti
Ditto. The prelude is Wagner’s musical picture of the Rheine as it flows in the narrows around the Lorelei. Tthe intrinsic sonic beauty of various choirs in the orchestra are more manifest. Diction is clearer. The Rheine maidens are more distinctive from one another. Notable from the last of 6 sides was the purity of Wotan’s voice and the stereo stage presentation.


Beethoven’s 9th, Solti, 4th movement
Removing the screens increases both the power and clarity of the opening’s lower strings, improves the consistency of suspension of disbelief re. being present in a large hall with many performers, clarifies the individuality and interplay of musical lines, allows singers to sound less shouty and more beautiful, improves intelligibility of words even when there are multiple lines being sung. I.e., ditto.

Realistically, all the improvements described above without the screens do not change the basic character of the 009s all that much. After all, these are improvements to an already world class transducer.

I cannot recommend that people repeat this at home, as it leaves the 009s much more open to serious damage. I have not experienced any shocks during this exercise. I am glad that I acquired (at least) a (cheap) headphone stand, to keep the 009s safer when not in use. If anyone knows of any danger to the listener, please let me know, asap.
Statfi - how difficult would be to replace the headband on 009 with Mrspeakers TiNol one? That will look better,more comfortable, durable etc.
I am thinking of doing so later on.
 
Sep 23, 2017 at 5:16 AM Post #12,951 of 25,660
I published an article in the July, 2017 issue of AudioXpress magazine on maintenance and modifications to improve the T1. There is one modification which I inadvertently omitted from the article, which is to insert 4.7 megohm safety resistors in line between the bias supply on the circuit board and the front panel terminals for both the normal and pro bias terminals - I used Vishay VR37000004704JA100 resistors, available from Mouser. You should be able to get a copy of the issue from the audioxpress.com website.

also, JimL11's article contains cap upgrade info FYI.
 
Sep 23, 2017 at 10:39 AM Post #12,952 of 25,660
WANTED--PARTNER IN CRIME
I typically use ABAB... tests to verify the effects of changes to my listening system. With the rather extensive modifications to my 009s, I have lost that ability. So, if any other owners of 009s would like to actually hear what I have actually achieved, I would love to have you over to my place in Northern California. That way I will be able to compare your stock 009s to my Franken009s, and you vice versa. I have a BHSE, and good (essentially immovable) phono system. BYOD(AC) appropriate. Send me PM to arrange.
 
Sep 23, 2017 at 11:14 AM Post #12,953 of 25,660
Statfi - how difficult would be to replace the headband on 009 with Mrspeakers TiNol one? That will look better,more comfortable, durable etc.
I am thinking of doing so later on.
You're way ahead of me, and prompted me to look at MrSpeakers web site. It is amazing to me how much modification of their cans they offer commercially. It would be nice if Stax did that. I am doing my tests on the cheap with limited fabrication facilities at my disposal. They could do a world class job, as they are already doing with other aspects of their products.

I do not know how difficult it would be to re-fit the headbands. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions on the Stax side.

I do recommend that you try rubber bands before disassembling your 009s, to see if you hear the difference, like the difference, and see what sort of force suits your tastes. If you do do this, please report back! Again, rubber bands are cheap, easy and available!

I have found that I can do quick tests of whether or not more clamping force makes a difference by grasping the ear cups on the edges, so my hand cannot reflect energy back into the ear cups, and pressing against my head. You can use this for spot checks *after* you mount the TiNol one.

I previously gave measurements of how much force I was using: page-819 #post-13578161: 2lbs vs. 5.9lbs, stock. You could, as a first step, before you disassemble the MrSpeakers, measure their clamping force, as I did for the 009s. Pictures of my setup below. Based on such measurements, you can decide if their increase in force is worth the effort of the swap.

I have also found that I want to control the force distribution around the circumference of the cups: greater force where the cups are against my hard skull (typically high and back) and less where they are against softer portions of my head (low and forward). My straps allow this level of control, and I would want it for any system that provides enough clamping force to give improved sound quality.

Disclaimers: 1) I care not one whit what I look like in my headphones. 2) I do not now have a good method to empirically verify how much increased clamping force improves sound quality with the screens removed: I *suspect* that it does, but do not know.
 
Sep 23, 2017 at 11:25 AM Post #12,954 of 25,660
Screen Shot 2017-09-23 at 8.23.00 AM.png

How I measured force with a thin electronic scale and box to roughly give my head dimensions.
 
Sep 23, 2017 at 5:19 PM Post #12,957 of 25,660
A few days ago, I removed the inner and outer (metal) screens of the 009s. The associated o-rings are still in place. The inner, fabric, dust screen had been previously removed, so now, “with screens” means without the inner dust screen. In both cases, the cups are held to my skull with 3 1”-wide elastic bands adjusted as tightly as I can enjoy over several hours of listening. Call it “snugly” !-) Also, ~3oz of tungsten beads are glued to each ear cups, for additional damping (which whose efficacy has not been verified with ABA…testing).

The following comparisons were done in the space of 24 hours without touching the volume control, so I had good aural memory for this simple A-B test. All statements are about the new screenless configuration wrt the old configuration with screens. Subsequent listening over several days confirms the improvements heard in the A-B test.

Linda Ronstadt, Hasten Down the Wind, S2
Linda’s voice is even purer, more beautiful and more “immediate”: i.e., it “is like” a veil has been removed, and, of course, that is the physical case. Nuances of her singing technique and her expressions are clearer. The direct and ambient components of her voice are more easily distinguished. Expanding the scope to the whole gestalt, including Linda, everything is “easier” and more relaxed at the same time that it is clearer, cleaner and more defined. It is easier to understand words. It is easier to hear the whole lines of background performers and how they play with and against the main line. It is easier to hear the vocal characteristics and nuanced expressions of individual members of vocal backup ensemble. Turning attention to the various accompanying instruments, the piano is “purer” and more beautiful, impact on drums and the effects of their components (like skins) are more apparent, giving a sound that is simultaneously more impactful and relaxed, metallic percussion is cleaner.

L’Histoire du Soldat, Reference Recordings, S1
Improved purity of timbres, clarity of technique, expression and instrumental “action” (e.g., skins, bows), more relaxed sound yet with greater impact, greater continuity and individuality of secondary and/or parallel main musical lines: pretty consistent with “Hasten Down the Wind”. However, the first thing that hit me was in the gestalt domain: stereo. I use the word “stereo” with emphasis on its root meaning, “solid”, in the sense of having a clear illusion of “solid” performers and their instruments in a real acoustic space. The improvement of the stereo illusion on this recording done with minimalist miking is striking: without their screens the 009s do a better job of transporting you to the event recorded.


Manhattan Transfer, Extensions, Birdland
From the drop of the needle, aaah, and Wow: a gestalt that is simultaneously more relaxed and impactful. Details would be repetitive of descriptions above. Notable improvements are the richness and beauty of the piano, and delicacy of cymbal work.


Peter, Paul and Mary, Album 1700
Ditto. Aspects I found particularly outstanding without the screens was “openness” of the soundscape, i.e. the “spaces” between performers (presumably in their own tracks) were bigger. I think that some reviewers refer to what I was hearing as “blacker backgrounds”, which is a good description of the impression. Also, counter intuitively; the bass line was easier to follow with more definite pitches.


Wagner, Das Rheingold, London, Solti
Ditto. The prelude is Wagner’s musical picture of the Rheine as it flows in the narrows around the Lorelei. Tthe intrinsic sonic beauty of various choirs in the orchestra are more manifest. Diction is clearer. The Rheine maidens are more distinctive from one another. Notable from the last of 6 sides was the purity of Wotan’s voice and the stereo stage presentation.


Beethoven’s 9th, Solti, 4th movement
Removing the screens increases both the power and clarity of the opening’s lower strings, improves the consistency of suspension of disbelief re. being present in a large hall with many performers, clarifies the individuality and interplay of musical lines, allows singers to sound less shouty and more beautiful, improves intelligibility of words even when there are multiple lines being sung. I.e., ditto.

Realistically, all the improvements described above without the screens do not change the basic character of the 009s all that much. After all, these are improvements to an already world class transducer.

I cannot recommend that people repeat this at home, as it leaves the 009s much more open to serious damage. I have not experienced any shocks during this exercise. I am glad that I acquired (at least) a (cheap) headphone stand, to keep the 009s safer when not in use. If anyone knows of any danger to the listener, please let me know, asap.

You are doing several things together so it is a little unclear what exactly is contributing to the sonic improvements you hear. Clamping the phones would presumably give you a better seal around the ears. I am however curious about your reference to tungsten beads used for damping. I have never heard of this material as having any damping properties, but my take on this issue is that just about anything which adds mass to a headphone or speaker will dampen the vibrations in the body of the headphone. However, the best ones are able to get rid of this mechanical energy by converting it to heat.

Several companies are now doing this type of damping in both speakers and headphones, the earliest was probably Sennheiser which uses something it called a "space age material" in the headband for the HD 800. I would imagine they are still doing this in their TOL electrostatic. But several other companies are adding mechanical damping (not to be confused with felt and other materials used to dampen the back wave from speakers). Generally they refer to visco-elastics and polymers although Grado seems to have come up with a polycarbonate plastic which serves this role in their new E-series. The most readily available visco-elastic polymer is sorbothane. I have had very good results with various grades of dense (70 duro) self-stick sorb, the best results with 1/2 inch but you can not get this in self-stick and getting the right glue is an issue. You might want to check the thread I started in DYI, especially the last dozen or so pages. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dam...s-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials.744839/
 
Sep 23, 2017 at 6:56 PM Post #12,958 of 25,660
You are doing several things together so it is a little unclear what exactly is contributing to the sonic improvements you hear. Clamping the phones would presumably give you a better seal around the ears. I am however curious about your reference to tungsten beads used for damping. I have never heard of this material as having any damping properties, but my take on this issue is that just about anything which adds mass to a headphone or speaker will dampen the vibrations in the body of the headphone. However, the best ones are able to get rid of this mechanical energy by converting it to heat.

Thanks for the cogent reply! Thanks for the referral to "Damping..."! It looks like a gold mine, but I will need time to digest.

Some of my improvements can be loosely analyzed in terms of the procedure I have reported: increasing clamping, going to elastic bands, removing the screens. Regarding clamping, I had unconsciously ruled "sealing" out because farts indicate that the seal is essentially always rather good. My hypothesis is that tighter clamping allows acoustic energy in the cups to drain off into your skull. I *hope* to some day get the ambition and transducers I would need to verify this... As I mentioned, I myself am not clear on the efficacy of the W beads, and will revisit that, eventually.

Given you started a thread on "Damiping..." I need to back pedal a little on my usage. In my mind, simply adding mass to the cup should reduce their motion (which is inherently undesirable) in response to the "equal and opposite" force of driving the diaphragm, which I should not have called "damping". However, I used thickish layers of super-glue type gel as adhesive, so I *suspect* that there is a high-compliance, acoustically lossy layer between the cups and the heavy beads, which could be doing real damping (i.e., conversion to heat). I used "damping" to loosely cover both effects. To address your point: I do *not* think that there is substantial damping happening within the W. Your Damping thread talks a lot about using Sorbothane. I will definitely pursue that, and report back...
 
Sep 23, 2017 at 7:04 PM Post #12,959 of 25,660
Obviously.:o2smile:
:)
Oh, and that reasonable response reminded me of another disclaimer: 3) Stax fart's are more likely with higher clamping forces, and do not bother me if they do not occur when I am sitting rather stationary for serious listening. With my elastic bands, if the cups ride too far down towards my neck, farts can happen when I just stretch my neck, which I do routinely, when listening. I have learned to insure that the cups are riding far enough up on my skull to prevent farts when I just stretch my neck.
 

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