The Stax Thread III
Nov 2, 2015 at 10:46 PM Post #7,066 of 25,665
Got the L700 in today to join my nice little Stax collection: a KGST, two full sized KGSShv, 009, and 007 Mk I. Sources on hand are an Eximus DP1 and NAD M51, driven by an iMac and Audiophilleo 2 with the PSU. I've also had a new Yggdrasil running in for a few days, but just lent it to a friend (and now I wait for the philanthropy awards which are surely headed my way). Also I have a very nice analog setup -- Clearaudio Innovation, Graham Phantom, Koetsu Onyx, Rogue Ares, Cinemag 1131 SUT -- but that's tethered to the big Tannoy Canterbury system and I haven't felt the need to cross-pollinate yet. 
 
About myself: I'm a hardcore 009 lover. I think that once you get to the KGSShv amp level, this is the best headphone. I understand how the warmth of the 007 Mk I is appealing, especially with the BHSE, which is perfectly voiced for it. But the 009 is my ultimate headphone, and when paired with a DIY T2 I think it pushes the limits of what headphones can achieve (best I've ever heard, certainly). I easily prefer the 009 over: Sony R10 (bass heavy and light), Qualia 010, Sennheiser Orpheus he90 w/ hev90, HE1000 (only heard the prototype, but was not terribly impressed), Sennhieser HD800, Grado HP1000, Audio Technica L3000, AKG K1000, etc. I've heard a number of dynamic amps too, in case you were wondering.
 
I didn't notice any significant burn-in with the 009, so for now I'm operating on the assumption that this also holds with the L700. I started out with my 500V KGSShv, which is the most neutral and resolving of all the KGSShv units I've heard -- and is easily my favored paring for both the 009 and 007 Mk I. To be frank -- with the L700 it yields good sound, with a nice neutral balance, but it's fairly disappointing next to the 009. The L700 is less detailed. The bass is voluminous, but it's slightly bloated and uncontrolled compared to the 009's bass perfection. And some might find the L700's treble slightly less offensive than the 009, but then I'm not one who finds any offense in anything the 009 does (with at least a full-sized KGSShv). The soundstage is just like how I hear other lambdas (I've had the Lambda Pro and Lambda Signature): tall, not great in back-to-font depth, and not particularly wide, but with a stronger left/right division than is optimal. The 009 by comparison is nicely large, spherical, and perfectly uniformly distributed within that space. The L700 midrange is very good (as with all Stax), but slightly hollow and lacking palpability (i.e. mildly soul-less) when compared to the 007 or 009 on the same amp. In short, the 009 w/ KGSShv is superior to the L700 in virtually all aspects, technical and musical.
 
At this point it was time to try the KGST -- nothing to lose, right? I had to dust the poor damn thing off: the KGST was supposedly designed as a match for the 009, but I found it to be far from that. A nice amp, to be sure, but compared to a KGSShv (or better) it restricts the 009 in detail, soundstage, and bass impact. Its one advantage over the KGSShv is a slightly more organic, palpable midrange -- presumably bequeathed by the tubes. And this lovely midrange was the one reason I held out some hope for an L700 pairing. Still not expecting much, the result was instantly surprising and pleasing! It's a wonderful musical balance. NONE of the relative weaknesses of these two components are additive: neither the detail nor the soundstage of either is reduced further in the pairing. Furthermore, in the case of the bass, it seems as if two wrongs actually make a right: the resultant bass has excellent impact and is nicely controlled to boot. Most interestingly, the midrange of the L700 benefits a LOT from the tubed KGST (more than it benefits the 009), and the result is beautiful. Whereas I feel that the KGST brings the 009 backwards vs. the KGSShv, I also feel that it equally pushes the L700 forward.
To be clear, the 009 w/ KGSShv is still the better technical performer. However, the L700 w/ KGST is a good technical performer with excellent musicality, and encroaches upon the 009 system there -- in fact I can assure you that some will prefer the L700/KGST, though I don't count myself among them (at least not yet). 
 
It's only been a few hours so far, but this has been enlightening experience. I think the KGST and L700 is a wonderfully balanced system -- and I would never have guessed that at the start, given the KGSShv's clear superiority over KGST with both 007 and 009. Crappy pics because I'm lazy but hey at least I can show I have this stuff :wink:
 

 

 
Nov 2, 2015 at 11:05 PM Post #7,067 of 25,665
Appreciate the link.

An excellent repeatable measurement methodology. Good science, impressively done!

Did you get a chance to corrolate measurements to perceived response?

That whole post on DIY Electrostatic Headphones will give me A LOT to chew on in the coming days/months.

Thanks!


Much appreciate the feedback :). This diy stat thread in itself is really neat actually. I did not go very far myself but it was quite instructive already :wink:.

Arnaud
 
Nov 2, 2015 at 11:28 PM Post #7,069 of 25,665

 
I recognize those two amps at the top.
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Nov 3, 2015 at 3:18 AM Post #7,072 of 25,665
   
I recognize those two amps at the top.
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:)  They both have a great home that for sure.  Mike is my old pal and he deserves your wonderful sounding KGSSHV/KGST amps.
 
@mulveling 
 
Thanks for writing.  Great impressions for sure!  I'll let you borrow my Lamba Pro & Signature for a little old school lambda vs. L700 shootout.
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 3:53 AM Post #7,073 of 25,665
   I'll let you borrow my Lamba Pro & Signature for a little old school lambda vs. L700 shootout.

 
 
I'm VERY insterested in those impressions. Thks in advance for sharing :wink: 
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 4:54 AM Post #7,074 of 25,665
  :)  They both have a great home that for sure.  Mike is my old pal and he deserves your wonderful sounding KGSSHV/KGST amps.
 
@mulveling 
 
Thanks for writing.  Great impressions for sure!  I'll let you borrow my Lamba Pro & Signature for a little old school lambda vs. L700 shootout.


I made some comparisons yesterday between sig. and 700, the sig. is airier more open a la 009 more musical or alive and soundstage appear slightly better.I have friends who occasionally have a listen to sig. many prefer sig to 009...hah.
When you switch from 700 back to sig. i call it music,the sig.is not as balanced as 700 or 009 but who cares...hah.
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Nov 3, 2015 at 10:24 AM Post #7,075 of 25,665
When I had the Lambda Signature, I only ran it out of a KGSShv. I thought it had some nice features to its sound, but it was just too tipped up for me in the upper part of the spectrum. To be clear, it was not harsh or fatiguing -- all the Stax models I've tried are so clean up top that I don't find them fatiguing, even if the amount of treble energy is more than my preference (heck, I got some listening fatigue after only 15 minutes with the warm sounding HE1000 prototype!). I had the Lambda Pro some time before that, and found it to be a very good match to the same KGSShv (for its used prices I thought the Pro to be a bargain). Driven from a KGSShv, the sonic balance of the L700 is a lot closer to that of the Pro. 
 
That said, I'm pretty stoked now about the musicality of the KGST and how it might match with Stax models other than the 007 and 009. I also think I read here (Ali Pacha?) that the Signature was a lovely match with a Stax tube amp -- I can see how that might be so. I'm definitely a huge fan of the KGSShv, BHSE, DIY T2 amps for the ultimate pursuit of resolution and perfection when paired with 009 (or 007 for those who prefer a warmer sound), but now I can also see the value in other pairings -- very enjoyable, and with still better technical performance than the vast majority of high end dynamic systems in most areas!
 
And of course I'd like to get all 3 lambdas in at once to more thoroughly explore the differences (thanks Purk!!). 
 
I'll also state, perhaps to my discredit, that I hear much more significant differences amongst electrostatic amps than with DACs (even from one KGSShv to another). It's really a hell of a lot of fun to sort out the nuances of various amps with a good 2 or more Stax headphones. And a proper pairing here is obviously crucial. It's been a LOT less fun to try to sort out the relatively minor differences between the DACs I've tried so far -- as far as I'm concerned the three I have right now are all pretty good sounding (Eximus DP1, NAD M51, Yggy). I know sources can make a hell of a difference, but my experience with them actually making a huge difference has been mostly in the vinyl & speakers world.
 
Also to my discredit -- I like to listen pretty loud (I don't do it like this every day, and not for long stretches) -- though this probably also helps make amp differences more apparent. I find that Stax are the only headphones where you can listen pretty loud without fatigue. 
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 3:06 PM Post #7,076 of 25,665
My heart just skipped a beat.
 
Sennheiser's new electrostatic headphone system (successor to the legendary Orpheus, out next year) will actually cost...around 50,000 Euros. O_O
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/786512/sennheiser-orpheus-successor-the-sennheiser-he1060-hev1060-first-look
 
Due to its controversial nature, this will inevitably be nicknamed the "STAX killer" even if some people don't like it as much as the best STAX. My best friend wants it too. haha
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 3:53 PM Post #7,079 of 25,665
This new Sennheiser stuff will force the high-end speaker makers to up their pricing game. I mean we've been at the point of $200K speakers being the new 100K speaker for a good while. Now with $65K+ headphones in the game, the speaker guys are lagging dangerously behind the cutting edge. Nobody in that market segment will want to buy pleb 120K speakers when it's only twice as expensive as some headphones.
 
Nov 3, 2015 at 4:03 PM Post #7,080 of 25,665
  This new Sennheiser stuff will force the high-end speaker makers to up their pricing game. I mean we've been at the point of $200K speakers being the new 100K speaker for a good while. Now with $65K+ headphones in the game, the speaker guys are lagging dangerously behind the cutting edge. Nobody in that market segment will want to buy pleb 120K speakers when it's only twice as expensive as some headphones.

 
I'm honestly glad I prefer headphones over speakers. I've seen speaker systems that cost well over a million dollars.
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