[Sal1950]

  Well, gentlemen, you are wrong.
 
I agree that soundstage in headphones is the hardest thing to achieve - and is , therefore, the least likely to be experienced.
 
But it CAN be done. The following binaural recordings, when listened to on GOOD headphones ( AKG K-1000/BAP-1000 > AKG K-1000 > ..... > .....) , should be convincing enough. Not totally perfect, but sure beats anything that does less/nothing to preserve spatial cues.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd5i7TlpzCk&feature=iv&src_vid=2Gpl99s02Aw&annotation_id=annotation_3247023919
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gpl99s02Aw&feature=iv&src_vid=Yd5i7TlpzCk&annotation_id=annotation_1507169079
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKVu5IMsj2g
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7P6_afutjo
 
The ultimate ? Binaural + AKG K-1000 (style/type) + subwoofer. Should beat ANY surround technique.

Binaural I would call cheating, it's being done through phycoacustic electronic manipulation of the source. There's a bunch of different devices out there for that approach but those are unnatural sound effects. Listen to an original copy of Roger Waters Amazed to Death LP in Q Sound, interesting but also unnatural.

 

[analogsurviver]

  Binaural I would call cheating, it's being done through phycoacustic electronic manipulation of the source. There's a bunch of different devices out there for that approach but those are unnatural sound effects. Listen to an original copy of Roger Waters Amazed to Death LP in Q Sound, interesting but also unnatural.

Psychoacoustic ELECTRONIC manipulation ?!?
 
Where do you have anything electronic in recording of binaural - other than mics and recorder ? ( HEAD Acoustics Aachen head does use DSP instead of ear shaped "entrance" for the mike - in order to be able to use larger diameter microphone that allows for 120 dB dynamic range, which can not be covered by smaller microphone due to S/N issues ) It is pure shape/size of ears/canals, coupled to mics (this is the most tricky part to implement successfully ) - NO electronics manipulation - at all.
 
ANYTHING recorded by PF or Roger Waters IS unnatural - and should not be counted as quality recording in scientific meaning. Make no mistake, I enjoy their work - but it has nothing to do with advancement of natural sounding recording. That IS cheating - enjoyable, interesting, but cheating nonetheless.
 
Binaural - or, in its more native language, Kunstkopf, has been on the contrary quite well researched and documented. It is not perfect - yet - but it has a chance of eventually getting there.

 

[analogsurviver]

   
Looks like there will be a predecessor finally in late 2016.
 
Might have to give it a go as from what I hear k1000 and hd800 amps usually work well with one another (dna sonnet). I'm certainly more stoked about a k1000mk2 than a Orpheus 1060 or lcd-4. I hope it is high ohm.

Great info. 
 
I do not care if it runs on 5 phase - as long as it delivers the goods sonically. Original K-1000 is FAR more demanding to drive than HD-800.

 

[listen4joy]

hope the design of k1000mk2/k2000 whatever the name is will be different and not weired

 

[pearljam50000]

So... There's a K1000 MKII soon? What's the source of this news?

 

[jibzilla]

Unless Nomax is jerking our chains I saw it on here. Supposedly his Avatar?

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Sound stage for headphones is an odd duck while some claim to hear far more space then others as I hear less. I think it is in two parts
One being the headphone the second the person
While recordings vary and it must contain the needed detail most do as shown on speakers
My home ref is the IRS V
My second the rs1/B as for sound stage they are among top shelf
Only three headphones stand out in staging
One is the hd800 but it is surpassed greatly by the ak1000 and the quad that nobody seems to have heard
For me the quad beats the ak1000 big time as it's an electro style so very fast
But really as a child before I could afford my first headphones I use to lay down between my book shelf speakers
Now maybe it was the pot I was smoking but there seemed to be an amazing staging of music lol
No headphone really is the same as great speakers but I do love headphones too. My fav is the he6 for its sound second would be the hd800 both fast and loaded with details
The he60 and stac 009 have an entirely different feel to the sound both not having the weight to the sound I love
Now some claim to hear amazing imaging with ciems
I won 11 pairs I never feel that way but we cannot discount what others may hear I know I can hear things like a saber dac that never sounds good to me while others live it. Audio diversity is both greet and what makes this hobby so argumentative as each if thinks we hear like all else
We do not our hearing is a learned craft by what we feed our ears each day of time
Someone who mostly hears music live I amplified will not agree with others who do not. And musicians are far from me as they really know how it sounds but from my perspective I love what I like more lol

 

[phonomat]

*snip* But really as a child before I could afford my first headphones I use to lay down between my book shelf speakers
Now maybe it was the pot I was smoking but there seemed to be an amazing staging of music lol *snip*

 

[fiascogarcia]

But really as a child before I could afford my first headphones I use to lay down between my book shelf speakers
Now maybe it was the pot I was smoking but there seemed to be an amazing staging of music lol

Hilarious, I used to do exactly the same thing. My mother was convinced I would be deaf by age 14!

 

[phonomat]

Hilarious, I used to do exactly the same thing. My mother was convinced I would be deaf by age 14!

From smoking pot? No way!

 

[ALRAINBOW]

I was about 16 I systems drugs late lol. But hey it was the 70 peace and love was abound. But mom was paused off hearing music all night so my first headphones was born
Panasonic ones two drivers in each. That led to two channel Lafayette kit stuff that when the Hearing loss started hahahhaa
My room was dark purple wow the weed that burnt up in that room
Names you may not know of weed were
Double
Doobue
Squeaky
Then came pipes
Anyway sorry for off topic glad it made some laugh

 

[Sal1950]

  Psychoacoustic ELECTRONIC manipulation ?!?
 
Where do you have anything electronic in recording of binaural - other than mics and recorder ? ( HEAD Acoustics Aachen head does use DSP instead of ear shaped "entrance" for the mike - in order to be able to use larger diameter microphone that allows for 120 dB dynamic range, which can not be covered by smaller microphone due to S/N issues ) It is pure shape/size of ears/canals, coupled to mics (this is the most tricky part to implement successfully ) - NO electronics manipulation - at all.
 
ANYTHING recorded by PF or Roger Waters IS unnatural - and should not be counted as quality recording in scientific meaning. Make no mistake, I enjoy their work - but it has nothing to do with advancement of natural sounding recording. That IS cheating - enjoyable, interesting, but cheating nonetheless.
 
Binaural - or, in its more native language, Kunstkopf, has been on the contrary quite well researched and documented. It is not perfect - yet - but it has a chance of eventually getting there.

Actually I was thinking more of the various attempts to create a multi channel sound-field using various electronic manipulation such as the Smyth Room Realizer now somewhat in vogue.

 

[analogsurviver]

Sound stage for headphones is an odd duck while some claim to hear far more space then others as I hear less. I think it is in two parts
One being the headphone the second the person
While recordings vary and it must contain the needed detail most do as shown on speakers
My home ref is the IRS V
My second the rs1/B as for sound stage they are among top shelf
Only three headphones stand out in staging
One is the hd800 but it is surpassed greatly by the ak1000 and the quad that nobody seems to have heard
For me the quad beats the ak1000 big time as it's an electro style so very fast
But really as a child before I could afford my first headphones I use to lay down between my book shelf speakers
Now maybe it was the pot I was smoking but there seemed to be an amazing staging of music lol
No headphone really is the same as great speakers but I do love headphones too. My fav is the he6 for its sound second would be the hd800 both fast and loaded with details
The he60 and stac 009 have an entirely different feel to the sound both not having the weight to the sound I love
Now some claim to hear amazing imaging with ciems
I won 11 pairs I never feel that way but we cannot discount what others may hear I know I can hear things like a saber dac that never sounds good to me while others live it. Audio diversity is both greet and what makes this hobby so argumentative as each if thinks we hear like all else
We do not our hearing is a learned craft by what we feed our ears each day of time
Someone who mostly hears music live I amplified will not agree with others who do not. And musicians are far from me as they really know how it sounds but from my perspective I love what I like more lol

IRS V and rs1/B ( which I have heard ) are both great speakers.
 
What is the make/model of that quad headphone ?
 
I agree we all perceive the sound a bit differently and give preference to equipment accordingly. 

 

[ALRAINBOW]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0195/8522/products/FloatQA_5-1_grande.jpeg%253Fv%253D1356707825&imgrefurl=http://stereodesk.com/collections/quad-and-jecklin&h=450&w=600&tbnid=PruXg1cTgrl9kM:&docid=KkTLjWCFVVbVGM&hl=en-us&ei=RLxMVvapBoGletDlnJgM&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CEsQMyglMCVqFQoTCPbb2J3GmskCFYGSHgod0DIHww

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Not sure what model it was. I heard a few times
Last time was at the NYC audio show. Very good imaging and details it's a real scaled down estanc headphone as the company makes speakers. But. As they hang on your head like the ak1000 does it seems odd